Nigel Farage EU Speech

[MSS]

Originally Posted by wraymond

So far as I am aware nobody on here has called anyone anything, let alone racist and nor should they. And nobody said they did. Posts, at least mine, are specifically not aimed at personalities on here, I wouldn't be so rude as to even cast aspersions. At the same time I'm sure that many posts, including mine, will inevitably strike a chord in those with opposing views.

They shouldn't be taken personally or directed at members. We try to take a wider view and I have never castigated another on here nor have I felt on the receiving end.

The terms of Left or Right are in common use and used by either side as reference point, they are not derogatory. Discerning about such subjects is what makes us human, in favour of apples over oranges, left hands over right hands, choice of cars.

Just for the record: To remove every single possible interpretation that could possibly be made in a post is impossible given the absence of body language. One relies on the goodwill of fellow members to assume the best of intentions.

Just for clarity, I did not take your post personally or find it offensive. I did however wonder about its purpose.

Your views clearly resonate with those of Farage which is fine and to be respected.

What I don't understand is why you feel it necessary to make disparaging remarks about certain types of people not on the forum e.g. "What matters to me now is to separate the mannered from the crude, the honest from the disingenuous and the well meaning from the furious-at-not-getting-their-way-and-acting-like-spoilt-brats wreckers." Interestingly, whilst you would appear to consider Frage to be mannered and honest, there are many others who would take exactly the opposite view.

As for whether he is a racist or not, I don't believe any of us really know so I fail to see how you can be so categorical that he is not. I would hazard a guess that if someone's life depended on deciding whether Farage was a racist or not, it is probable that most people would consider it more likely than not that he is. But that is ofcourse just my opnion, based on my view that nothing in life is certain and most situations require an individual to make decisions based on fuzzy indicators and balance of probabilities.

[wraymond]

Originally Posted by mss

.......

What I don't understand is why you feel it necessary to make disparaging remarks about certain types of people not on the forum e.g. "What matters to me now is to separate the mannered from the crude, the honest from the disingenuous and the well meaning from the furious-at-not-getting-their-way-and-acting-like-spoilt-brats wreckers." Interestingly, whilst you would appear to consider Frage to be mannered and honest, there are many others who would take exactly the opposite view.

As for whether he is a racist or not, I don't believe any of us really know so I fail to see how you can be so categorical that he is not. I would hazard a guess that if someone's life depended on deciding whether Farage was a racist or not, it is probable that most people would consider it more likely than not that he is. But that is ofcourse just my opnion, based on my view that nothing in life is certain and most situations require an individual to make decisions based on fuzzy indicators and balance of probabilities.

I have snipped your post for brevity, I trust you will not think the context has changed. I will attempt to explain in detail my posts:

'Separating the mannered from the crude'.

Mannered - Angela Leadsom, Gisela Stuart, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Michael Gove, Jacob Rees-Mogg - as in polite, non-shouting or belligerent, allowing others to speak without undue interruption.

Crude - Osborne, Soubry, Salmond, Dimbleby - as in overbearing, lies subsequently turned into half truths then forgotten, grossly rude refusal to allow others to put an argument for consideration and cutting short their replies so the case can not be made.
Doubtless there will be others on either side but you get the meaning.

'Well meaning from the furious-at-not-getting etc'.

'Well meaning the millions of Leave voters who have resisted the temptation to lose their tempers at the renta-crowd now demonstrating against an entirely correct democratic result while shouting about democracy!

furious-at-not etc see above.

Now, I would be obliged if you would kindly point me to where I have said Farage is or is not a racist. I don't mean your personal inference from my words, I mean actual words having that implication.
The rest of your final paragraph is pure personal conjecture with no possibility of verification from any source.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by wraymond

Now, I would be obliged if you would kindly point me to where I have said Farage is or is not a racist.

So, do you think that he is or is not?

I am now even more lost as to the purpose of your post.

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by mss

So, do you think that he is or is not?

I am now even more lost as to the purpose of your post.

As to you first sentence - once again you desperately try to illicit the response you want to infer when the poster said nothing of the sort and in this case clearly explained this to you.

This is clear for all to see.

As for the second sentence - you are either being deliberately obtuse to the point of Trolling - or you really do have a problem with reality and the written word.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by Darcydog

As to you first sentence - once again you desperately try to illicit the response you want to infer when the poster said nothing of the sort and in this case clearly explained this to you.

This is clear for all to see.

As for the second sentence - you are either being deliberately obtuse to the point of Trolling - or you really do have a problem with reality and the written word.

You seem to have problems with my posts DD and cannot seem to refrain from responding even when my exchange is with another member.

Now, what is trolling and who is dong it?

[Simondi]

If this thread had to continue please can it be done in a courteous fashion.

The referendum has been run.

We all now have to deal with the consequences .

As to Farage I suspect around 51,9% of people think he is wonderful whereas the other 48.1 % think he is awful.

Wherever and whatever you think please think before you post and play nice.

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by mss

You seem to have problems with my posts DD and cannot seem to refrain from responding even when my exchange is with another member.

Now, what is trolling and who is dong it?

I have a problem with you MSS because you desperately try to label someone Racist - Farage - and then are guilty of inferring that Wraymond said something on this that he didn't.

Your last but one Post

Originally Posted by mss :-
So, do you think that he is or is not?

I am now even more lost as to the purpose of your post.

Where Wraymond has previously asked you to point out where he ever said anything about Farage on this issue:-

Now, I would be obliged if you would kindly point me to where I have said Farage is or is not a racist. I don't mean your personal inference from my words, I mean actual words having that implication.

I see your actions as creating a Strawman Argument that Wraymond has answered correctly, honestly and courteously.

You - in marked contrast then ask a Question of Wraymond regarding whether Wraymond thinks Farage is a Racist.

I find this use of the Race card objectionable and ask that the Mods review what has been posted here.

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by Simondi

If this thread had to continue please can it be done in a courteous fashion.

The referendum has been run.

We all now have to deal with the consequences .

As to Farage I suspect around 51,9% of people think he is wonderful whereas the other 48.1 % think he is awful.

Wherever and whatever you think please think before you post and play nice.

Could i please register an objection to MSS's insistence that another Poster should answer a question re the Racist status of a politician when the Poster has made it quite clear that he never said anything of the sort.

This is classic Straw-man argument tactics and constitutes Trolling

[Sector-9]

What is a racist and why is racism bad?

[MSS]

Originally Posted by Darcydog

Could i please register an objection to MSS's insistence that another Poster should answer a question re the Racist status of a politician when the Poster has made it quite clear that he never said anything of the sort.

This is classic Straw-man argument tactics and constitutes Trolling

With respect, DD, you are quite incorrect.

Wramond's initial post read

Originally Posted by wraymond

It's been tried so often to brand Farage as racist and just about every other disparaging term; invariably by establishment figures that are threatened by reform in that direction and the Left virtue-signallers and professionally-offended groupies.

Given his post, it was not unreasonable to ask, as part of an exchange of views, his own view on the matter.

To label somone a troll simply because you do not resonate with their viewpoint is extremely rude and a sign of lack of class.