1.8t clutch upgrade (track day car)

Robson Rover Repair · 27th April 2019, 11:26

OK folks, building a 1.8t track day car (and for anyone who says wrong car blah blah well I adore 75 and zts so it's the car I want to build it from).

So then, who has done any significant kind of clutch upgrade. Talking stage 2, 2.5 or 3 etc.

Very curious as to anyone else who's had one done. Engines coming out regardless so might as well do this at same time.

rrobson · 27th April 2019, 15:23

How much torque are you intending to throw through it? The standard clutch will likely stand up to at least 30% more than standard, especially if you reduce the weight of the car, but if your looking to seriously increase the power and torque output then you'll definitely want to think about upgrading.

Next question is are you keeping it road worthy? If not you could get away with a paddle clutch but the hydraulics may be a problem as they are weak enough with a standard spring plate.
Otherwise you'll need an organic clutch to maintain drivability but I have never looked for a supplier of them so I don't know how easy you'll find one.
Then of course you'll want an lsd to put all that extra power down, and better suspension, and bigger brakes, etc etc

Sheraton · 27th April 2019, 20:07

My own experience with an Overboosting Turbo (symptoms being a huge spike in Power) and the fact a lot of folks are running the k-Maps tune (around 30% increase in Peak Torque and Peak Horsepower) suggests to me a Healthy Standard OEM Clutch will handle a decent Power Increase - I'm not sure how it would stand up to track-day abuse tho.

I'd have thought a Flywheel change may be more beneficial for track-day use - Solid Mass rather than the Dual Mass

I can't say I've found any Valid (IMO) Clutch "Upgrades" for the 1.8t whilst searching - Apart from the Metal Slave Cylinder.

I don't get the "Stage 1" "Stage 2" thinking

Unless Upgrade Packages are offered from either a Tuning/Modifying Company or Manufacturer with Various Stages it means Nothing.. ...

I have seen a Hi-Torque "Stage 1" Clutch Kit - "Hi-Torque" being the Brand...... sounds like a Quality Part

.... Can't find their "Stage 2" tho

also No Warranty on the Parts and, described as being able to Handle 20% more than Stock Power - Doesn't sell itself to me

Paul.

Robson Rover Repair · 28th April 2019, 12:40

Well the plan for now is a sensible 240ish bhp but with just a remap at the start. From all accounts that's the block standard limits but that would be with a different turbo to keep pressure down.

Car will be road legal also.

Long term plan is to drop a full n series in from a 6 and use that as a more reliable track engine. But the current engine will basically be shake down and testing.

rrobson · 28th April 2019, 12:57

Nah, don't be daft, engines are good for 300 horses! They start bending rods over 360flbs though.

I'd stick with a good standard clutch for now, it'll happily cope with what the standard turbo will supply.

I seriously doubt an n series will give you much extra strength over a standard k considering people are pushing them toward 500bhp. Just make sure it's healthy, and make sure you open the ring gaps up a little, otherwise you'll be in heaps of trouble...

And don't worry too much about running a little extra boost, again people are running well above a bar.

I'm running 1 bar of boost on a standard engine currently, with a remap and a rising rate fuel reg and it's been 100% reliable. Just watch the oil temps (even with an oil cooler) and make sure you upgrade the radiator, the more cooling the batter with a k

Robson Rover Repair · 28th April 2019, 15:46

Well reason I'd want to go N is buying a brand new block and building it to perfect spec. If aim for more power then but my concerns are as always with the gear box and clutch setup. Lack of easily affordable diffs make to much power a waste of time especially in a heavy car. But we shall see. Collecting new 1.8t engine this weekend and hopefully get engine in by end of May.

Sheraton · 28th April 2019, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrobson

Nah, don't be daft, engines are good for 300 horses! They start bending rods over 360flbs though.

I'm running 1 bar of boost on a standard engine currently, with a remap and a rising rate fuel reg and it's been 100% reliable. Just watch the oil temps (even with an oil cooler) and make sure you upgrade the radiator, the more cooling the batter with a k

do you know what the standard Boost Pressure should be ?

I have a Boost Gauge taking a reading from the Inlet Manifold (VVC Manifold) generally max readings are 10-12 psi depending on Gear, Engine Speed, and Load - I occasionally see 15 psi (which would be around 1 Bar)

I have seen a k-series Lotus Elise reach almost 520bhp and around 380lb/ft

I don't know the specs - I'm assuming it has Forged Internals

*edit * I found this - " The sleeves are ductile, the crank is stock, forged pistons (7.8:1) with forged rods, normal pump fuel, 274 hydraulic cams holset hx40 turbo, 36psi of boost"

and it's now 572bhp

in an Elise (PG1 Gearbox)

Paul.

rrobson · 28th April 2019, 18:32

Standard boost pressure should be 8-10psi from memory???

These engines are a lot stronger than people realise. It's rpm and bad mapping which kills them. That Elise is epic! And really pushing the boundaries of what the humble k can really do. He was at near enough 400bhp and 380lbft before it bent the standard rods!!! Everything else was ok apart from some ductile liners which were fitted early on.

minimutly · 30th April 2019, 15:56

Agree, std thinwall liners and spindly rods need to go in the bin - I would also be looking at thicker wall ductile liners and one off pistons, with more meat above the gudgeon pins. If you come down from 1800 to 1700 does it matter?The block may or may not take it, but the worst that can happen there is leaky gaskets.
And then you need to fit bigger valves to the head - will give you more
power for less boost and heat.
I'd fit a "t"....
Then lighten the old barge, it's got to be a good aero shape as std?
Good luck, keep us posted?

27th April 2019, 11:26	#1
Robson Rover Repair NI/ROI RS ZT-T 190 / 75 Diesel x3 / 6 door limo / 216 Cabby / Rover 25 van Join Date: May 2009 Location: Antrim Posts: 8,102 Thanks: 299 Thanked 1,046 Times in 568 Posts	1.8t clutch upgrade (track day car) OK folks, building a 1.8t track day car (and for anyone who says wrong car blah blah well I adore 75 and zts so it's the car I want to build it from). So then, who has done any significant kind of clutch upgrade. Talking stage 2, 2.5 or 3 etc. Very curious as to anyone else who's had one done. Engines coming out regardless so might as well do this at same time. __________________ Cheers, Colin Robson Rover Repair on Youtube DISCOUNTED MTEC BRAKES FOR ALL MG ROVER'S Braided hoses, more coating and pad options for 2024

27th April 2019, 15:23	#2
rrobson I really should get out more....... 75 tourer cdti, MG ZS 180, nissan terrano & 1.8t rover 25 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pontefract Posts: 2,643 Thanks: 17 Thanked 295 Times in 218 Posts	How much torque are you intending to throw through it? The standard clutch will likely stand up to at least 30% more than standard, especially if you reduce the weight of the car, but if your looking to seriously increase the power and torque output then you'll definitely want to think about upgrading. Next question is are you keeping it road worthy? If not you could get away with a paddle clutch but the hydraulics may be a problem as they are weak enough with a standard spring plate. Otherwise you'll need an organic clutch to maintain drivability but I have never looked for a supplier of them so I don't know how easy you'll find one. Then of course you'll want an lsd to put all that extra power down, and better suspension, and bigger brakes, etc etc __________________ How to view a car - everything you need to help you inspect a used car VIS motor tester avalible to local members Injector removal tool and auto gearbox pressure tester now available

28th April 2019, 12:40	#4
Robson Rover Repair NI/ROI RS ZT-T 190 / 75 Diesel x3 / 6 door limo / 216 Cabby / Rover 25 van Join Date: May 2009 Location: Antrim Posts: 8,102 Thanks: 299 Thanked 1,046 Times in 568 Posts	Well the plan for now is a sensible 240ish bhp but with just a remap at the start. From all accounts that's the block standard limits but that would be with a different turbo to keep pressure down. Car will be road legal also. Long term plan is to drop a full n series in from a 6 and use that as a more reliable track engine. But the current engine will basically be shake down and testing. __________________ Cheers, Colin Robson Rover Repair on Youtube DISCOUNTED MTEC BRAKES FOR ALL MG ROVER'S Braided hoses, more coating and pad options for 2024

28th April 2019, 12:57	#5
rrobson I really should get out more....... 75 tourer cdti, MG ZS 180, nissan terrano & 1.8t rover 25 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pontefract Posts: 2,643 Thanks: 17 Thanked 295 Times in 218 Posts	Nah, don't be daft, engines are good for 300 horses! They start bending rods over 360flbs though. I'd stick with a good standard clutch for now, it'll happily cope with what the standard turbo will supply. I seriously doubt an n series will give you much extra strength over a standard k considering people are pushing them toward 500bhp. Just make sure it's healthy, and make sure you open the ring gaps up a little, otherwise you'll be in heaps of trouble... And don't worry too much about running a little extra boost, again people are running well above a bar. I'm running 1 bar of boost on a standard engine currently, with a remap and a rising rate fuel reg and it's been 100% reliable. Just watch the oil temps (even with an oil cooler) and make sure you upgrade the radiator, the more cooling the batter with a k __________________ How to view a car - everything you need to help you inspect a used car VIS motor tester avalible to local members Injector removal tool and auto gearbox pressure tester now available

28th April 2019, 15:46	#6
Robson Rover Repair NI/ROI RS ZT-T 190 / 75 Diesel x3 / 6 door limo / 216 Cabby / Rover 25 van Join Date: May 2009 Location: Antrim Posts: 8,102 Thanks: 299 Thanked 1,046 Times in 568 Posts	Well reason I'd want to go N is buying a brand new block and building it to perfect spec. If aim for more power then but my concerns are as always with the gear box and clutch setup. Lack of easily affordable diffs make to much power a waste of time especially in a heavy car. But we shall see. Collecting new 1.8t engine this weekend and hopefully get engine in by end of May. __________________ Cheers, Colin Robson Rover Repair on Youtube DISCOUNTED MTEC BRAKES FOR ALL MG ROVER'S Braided hoses, more coating and pad options for 2024

27th April 2019, 20:07	#3
Sheraton Posted a thing or two Rover 75 1.8t Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 1,377 Thanks: 384 Thanked 409 Times in 267 Posts	My own experience with an Overboosting Turbo (symptoms being a huge spike in Power) and the fact a lot of folks are running the k-Maps tune (around 30% increase in Peak Torque and Peak Horsepower) suggests to me a Healthy Standard OEM Clutch will handle a decent Power Increase - I'm not sure how it would stand up to track-day abuse tho. I'd have thought a Flywheel change may be more beneficial for track-day use - Solid Mass rather than the Dual Mass I can't say I've found any Valid (IMO) Clutch "Upgrades" for the 1.8t whilst searching - Apart from the Metal Slave Cylinder. I don't get the "Stage 1" "Stage 2" thinking Unless Upgrade Packages are offered from either a Tuning/Modifying Company or Manufacturer with Various Stages it means Nothing.. ... I have seen a Hi-Torque "Stage 1" Clutch Kit - "Hi-Torque" being the Brand...... sounds like a Quality Part .... Can't find their "Stage 2" tho also No Warranty on the Parts and, described as being able to Handle 20% more than Stock Power - Doesn't sell itself to me Paul.

28th April 2019, 18:32	#8
rrobson I really should get out more....... 75 tourer cdti, MG ZS 180, nissan terrano & 1.8t rover 25 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pontefract Posts: 2,643 Thanks: 17 Thanked 295 Times in 218 Posts	Standard boost pressure should be 8-10psi from memory??? These engines are a lot stronger than people realise. It's rpm and bad mapping which kills them. That Elise is epic! And really pushing the boundaries of what the humble k can really do. He was at near enough 400bhp and 380lbft before it bent the standard rods!!! Everything else was ok apart from some ductile liners which were fitted early on. __________________ How to view a car - everything you need to help you inspect a used car VIS motor tester avalible to local members Injector removal tool and auto gearbox pressure tester now available

30th April 2019, 15:56	#9
minimutly Posted a thing or two mg zt Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: cardigan Posts: 1,087 Thanks: 28 Thanked 187 Times in 158 Posts	Agree, std thinwall liners and spindly rods need to go in the bin - I would also be looking at thicker wall ductile liners and one off pistons, with more meat above the gudgeon pins. If you come down from 1800 to 1700 does it matter?The block may or may not take it, but the worst that can happen there is leaky gaskets. And then you need to fit bigger valves to the head - will give you more power for less boost and heat. I'd fit a "t".... Then lighten the old barge, it's got to be a good aero shape as std? Good luck, keep us posted?