EU vote?

[Mike Noc]

I was working in France a couple of weeks ago and the guys I was working with said that if we left the EU there would be a big call in France for a referendum on their membership.

[wraymond]

There lies the big elephant they daren't mention. If the UK leaves there will be major pressure from several others to do the same. If they don't get it there will be a massive call for far-right leaders to take over and that will just not do.

EU leaders see UK leaving as the start of the rot leading to precisely what nobody wants, Fascist revival in the manner of Marine le Pen in France and similar events in Austria, so narrowly avoided last week. Of course it wouldn't occur to them that the way to avoid that is to heed the people and make changes. That would stop the gravy train in its tracks.

[Polly]

Well my mind was made up whilst watching Paxman in Brussels (BBC)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07c6n58
Interesting to note that both camps complained that the programme was biased, so perhaps for once BBC got it right, and in any case there is a limit on bias.
Brexit the video https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=br...&client=safari
Is also worth a watch, and even if you don't believe a single figure quoted, just the way the place works is enough for me.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Leyland Worldmaster]

Originally Posted by wraymond

There lies the big elephant they daren't mention. If the UK leaves there will be major pressure from several others to do the same. If they don't get it there will be a massive call for far-right leaders to take over and that will just not do.

EU leaders see UK leaving as the start of the rot leading to precisely what nobody wants, Fascist revival in the manner of Marine le Pen in France and similar events in Austria, so narrowly avoided last week. Of course it wouldn't occur to them that the way to avoid that is to heed the people and make changes. That would stop the gravy train in its tracks.

The far right have been gaining strength for some years on the continent. It was particularly noticeable on my trip to Poland where I was advised NOT to leave the group I was with. To see swastikas and "White Power" in clear view on some main roads where I was staying was somewhat unsettling.

Very good point RE: heeding the people and making the change...

[wraymond]

Originally Posted by Leyland Worldmaster

The far right have been gaining strength for some years on the continent. It was particularly noticeable on my trip to Poland where I was advised NOT to leave the group I was with. To see swastikas and "White Power" in clear view on some main roads where I was staying was somewhat unsettling.

Very good point RE: heeding the people and making the change...

You raise a seldom discussed point Stuart, seldom because it can get out of hand. I'm sure good sense will prevail however.

This is a scary one and there’s a hesitation to post it, it’s relevant to the thread but another aspect. If anyone finds the following objectionable, please feel free to tell me and I’ll delete.

Time and again the spectre of Race emancipation scares the daylights out of the uneducated and bigoted knuckle-draggers in dark corners of the world. Allow sufficient generational gap and the horrors of deathly conflict fade, power hungry politicians sense the unrest, follow the money and get delusions of grandeur assuming they are the entitled ones and it starts again. It doesn’t matter how they describe their false objectives, Left or Right it’s always the same, the expansion of the Elite and the privileged few seeking to control the masses.

That’s what’s happening now, the influx of terrorised and impoverished people seeking a better life – not the much discussed financial aspect of banking and finance. All that does is reduce the argument to figures rather than humanitarian resolve. The arguments over this latest mess are all about the money. That’s a red herring and with care it could be totally avoided.

The sickening thing is the flat refusal to admit to the real problem. Until the illness is correctly diagnosed, the right remedy is elusive and the illness grows to an epidemic. Just as nature abhors a vacuum, civil unrest creates the vacuum for the radicals to rise and fill it. There is actually room for migrants, given the will for assimilation and planned dispersal rather than dumping on unwilling hosts.

[HarryM1BYT]

Interesting opinion from Theo on the Beeb News this morning... He intends voting for OUT, so as to stay in...

If Britain votes for out, the EU might wake up to the fact that so many member states are unhappy with the EU. The EU might then be pressured into changing its MO so as to be more sensible which would then enable us to stay.

[rab60bit]

If the EU had been at all interested in making substantial change Call me Dave might have come back from his recent 'negotiations' with more than just a pat on the head (and even that could/would be changed to a sharp slap should we take the hook and commit to remain).
THEY JUST ARE NOT INTERESTED AND CAN'T/DON'T WANT TO SEE CHANGE to their cosy sycophantic empire building!! It's mushroom land (and if haven't heard that before - "keep them in the dark and cover them in manure"); we are being suffocated in negative publicity to convince us that the UK cannot survive outside this 'club'.
Paxman got a good handle on what we stump up the current £350 000 000/per week (on average…) for - no strings, it's the 'membership' fee. In return we get £100 000 000/week refund (on average) with all sorts of strings attached - we are constrained on how/on what we spend it, and the UK rebate, which is a substantial portion of the refund, can be withdrawn/reduced at any time (it's an informal 'grant').
Joining the EEC back in 1973 was good for the UK (and then we were just 7, now it's 27 going on 33!! saddled with and managed by a European Song Contest style voting system….). We should not be seen as just fair weather friends to our EC 'partners' but we, and many of them, are being peddled a pup and a sickly pup at that. It's all changed and changing further for the worse trundling inexorably towards god knows what.
The EC is an arrogant, unaccountable, self serving, uncompetitive, inefficient and, sadly failing, behemoth.
"Stay in and negotiate change" is what Call me Dave proposes!! Cloud cuckoo land politics, IMHO the UK's 73 votes is just p…ing in to the wind of the +760 other votes - even if 'we' could attract some sympathetic allies from within.
Guess which way I'm voting…..

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by rab60bit

"Stay in and negotiate change" is what Call me Dave proposes!! Cloud cuckoo land politics, IMHO the UK's 73 votes is just p…ing in to the wind of the +760 other votes - even if 'we' could attract some sympathetic allies from within.
Guess which way I'm voting…..

Well written!

[damienp]

One good point that was made on the bbc1 debate this evening.
A voter that is 'undecided', made the comment that the 'remain' campaign hadn't convinced him to 'stay' because they'd said nothing about EU reform all evening. All they'd done was talk about how good being 'in' is.

[rab60bit]

Originally Posted by alanjay

Depends where you live whether or not you get the official government leaflet. Only 9 million government leaflets when there's a lot more households. Local Tory activist told me but I cannot confirm, if you live in a "safe" Tory seat you won't get a leaflet because they believe you are guaranteed to vote to stay in.
Whatever the case, I'm not happy that my tax payments are being used to promote a biased view from a PM who promised a balanced referendum.

We had ours 10 or so days back and you can't get much more of a safe Conservative seat than Generous George's - Tatton, Cheshire!