EU vote?

[SideValve]

Just turned the news off. Couldn't spend another minute listening to some triumphalist nutcase rabbiting on about how now we can make our own laws instead of being dictated to by unelected bureaucrats from Brussels.

If we haven't been making our own laws what on earth is all this?
http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2015-16.html

And if the people in Brussels are unelected who are these people?
http://www.europarl.org.uk/en/your-meps.html

The saddest part for me is that the vote was swung largely by the lower paid in our society who fell for the flag waving and sound-bites.
"We" haven't got control back. We have given the right wing of the Conservative party exactly what it wanted. Freedom to ditch nuisances like working time directives, minimum pay and environmental legislation.

They'll say "The people have spoken and We will listen". That's another sound bite. It sounds good but means nothing. They will carry on selling off our public services and redistributing this countries wealth from the us to their offshore funds. Osborne has already promised more austerity. He doesn't mean for him - he means austerity for you.

Having backbone is not voting for old Etonians and stockbrokers as they feather their own nests and blame everyone else for the UKs problems.
To me, looking at our own failings and working together with our neighbours to make things better required real strength. We should have taken the lead in Europe, we didn't, by quitting we have damaged English and European interests to the benefit of Russia and China and all our competitors.

[HarryM1BYT]

Originally Posted by gazcaz

If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom.

You forgot to mention that the sky didn't fall in

Yes, a very easy and promising ride so far - long may it continue.

[Gman2]

No surprises here:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...ddLBXyDBBRLd2w

Big headline brushstrokes to capture the electorate but in reality without any substance

Got to laugh - Farage has said it was also a vote against the political establishment by the people. Now he's tried to get a place in the Gove and Johnson "dream team" (the old boys club) and guess what they've snubbed him

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by bobthebuilder

DD, from your favourite newspaper, the Telegraph:

"The FTSE 250, which is considered a bellwether of the UK economy as a whole because it contains more UK-focussed companies,NAUGHTY WORD-endedNAUGHTY WORD-the day down 7.2pc - its worst day since Black Monday. The fall wiped £25bn off the value of the index in all and wiped almost a quarterNAUGHTY WORD-off the value of some stocks."


-- Where did all the naughty words come from? I did a direct copy and paste?

Re - the naughty word - thing - I had the same thing a while back - so don't worry - I am not offended !!!!

As for the article - it is selective in that it picks its timing - if you look at the FTSE 250 over the past 20 years (click on 'max' period in the FTSE 250 link i gave) you can see that the peaks and troughs this index has gone through far exceeds the movement it went through yesterday

Originally Posted by SideValve

Just turned the news off. Couldn't spend another minute listening to some triumphalist nutcase rabbiting on about how now we can make our own laws instead of being dictated to by unelected bureaucrats from Brussels.

If we haven't been making our own laws what on earth is all this?
http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2015-16.html

And if the people in Brussels are unelected who are these people?
http://www.europarl.org.uk/en/your-meps.html

The saddest part for me is that the vote was swung largely by the lower paid in our society who fell for the flag waving and sound-bites.
"We" haven't got control back. We have given the right wing of the Conservative party exactly what it wanted. Freedom to ditch nuisances like working time directives, minimum pay and environmental legislation.

They'll say "The people have spoken and We will listen". That's another sound bite. It sounds good but means nothing. They will carry on selling off our public services and redistributing this countries wealth from the us to their offshore funds. Osborne has already promised more austerity. He doesn't mean for him - he means austerity for you.

Having backbone is not voting for old Etonians and stockbrokers as they feather their own nests and blame everyone else for the UKs problems.
To me, looking at our own failings and working together with our neighbours to make things better required real strength. We should have taken the lead in Europe, we didn't, by quitting we have damaged English and European interests to the benefit of Russia and China and all our competitors.

I actually feel sorry for you - you are unable to accept that this was a democratic result and accept it and now move on.

All you are doing is harping on the project fear nonsense that failed before and fails now.

It is rather sad.

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

You forgot to mention that the sky didn't fall in

Yes, a very easy and promising ride so far - long may it continue.

True - but the Chickin Littles still like to think it will - Nay! even hope it will just so they can say "I told you so!"

[murphyv310]

Hi.
Well just a small comment from me.
I voted out and am glad I did. I am looking forward to the future even if it means moving out of Scotland if there is another indy vote and we vote out.
I am hoping to start up my own business next week and getting back to my roots in electronics.
A few friends believe that this throw away attitude here may be on the wane somewhat.
I have already been asked to do some work that will pay quite well, there is also some other work in the pipeline and it looks as if I could be doing other work for a small specialised company that makes Valve amps for the Audiophiles, the owner of which is now in ill health.

[bobthebuilder]

Brian, of course exports will become cheaper. But as you know full well, there are lots of disadvantages to drops in the value of our currency, including petrol prices going up! More importantly the devaluation is seen as a lack of confidence in our economy. If the BoE hadn't promised to stump up an extra £250 billion yesterday to support banks etc if necessary, the markets would have suffered even more.

I and others are not predicting doom and gloom, we are just reminding people that the predictions made by the economists are actually pretty darn accurate. Sadly these predictions were ignored.

The next stage is a minimum of two years of economic contraction whilst the 'divorce' is agreed. Only then can you expect to see any of these 'benefits' of 'independence'. And even that's a generous interpretation, as the trade deals have to be determined.

[marinabrian]

Originally Posted by murphyv310

Hi.
Well just a small comment from me.
I voted out and am glad I did. I am looking forward to the future even if it means moving out of Scotland if there is another indy vote and we vote out.
I am hoping to start up my own business very soon and getting back to my roots in electronics.
A few friends believe that this throw away attitude here may be on the wane somewhat.

I've run out of thanks Trev, but despite the bluff and bluster from Ms. Sturgeon, I can't see there being another Scottish referendum as close on the heels of the last one, especially as the last one was campaigned fiscally using North Sea Oil as the bedrock

I feel a lot closer to Scotland than Europe, probably about fifty miles by dead reckoning

Best of luck with your planned business start up too

Brian

[Sector-9]

Originally Posted by bobthebuilder

I and others are not predicting doom and gloom, we are just reminding people that the predictions made by the economists are actually pretty darn accurate. Sadly these predictions were ignored.

The next stage is a minimum of two years of economic contraction whilst the 'divorce' is agreed. Only then can you expect to see any of these 'benefits' of 'independence'. And even that's a generous interpretation, as the trade deals have to be determined.

The majority *didn't* ignore the predictions, they considered the short time pain worth it for the longer term gains. We're fully expecting things to be more expensive and uncertain for the next few years, but it's a price we've proven willing to pay to govern ourselves without outside interference. Had the EU offered a better deal to Cameron earlier this year then the vote could have been very different. I want to see how many other countries keep their faith in the EU over the next few years; I suspect that though we were first to leave, we may not be the last.

[bobthebuilder]

Originally Posted by SideValve

Just turned the news off. Couldn't spend another minute listening to some triumphalist nutcase rabbiting on about how now we can make our own laws instead of being dictated to by unelected bureaucrats from Brussels.

If we haven't been making our own laws what on earth is all this?
http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2015-16.html

And if the people in Brussels are unelected who are these people?
http://www.europarl.org.uk/en/your-meps.html

The saddest part for me is that the vote was swung largely by the lower paid in our society who fell for the flag waving and sound-bites.
"We" haven't got control back. We have given the right wing of the Conservative party exactly what it wanted. Freedom to ditch nuisances like working time directives, minimum pay and environmental legislation.

They'll say "The people have spoken and We will listen". That's another sound bite. It sounds good but means nothing. They will carry on selling off our public services and redistributing this countries wealth from the us to their offshore funds. Osborne has already promised more austerity. He doesn't mean for him - he means austerity for you.

Having backbone is not voting for old Etonians and stockbrokers as they feather their own nests and blame everyone else for the UKs problems.
To me, looking at our own failings and working together with our neighbours to make things better required real strength. We should have taken the lead in Europe, we didn't, by quitting we have damaged English and European interests to the benefit of Russia and China and all our competitors.

Well said! The electorate protested against a multitude of issues that need addressing in society and hooked onto the immigration, control, independence, democracy etc clarion calls the Leave campaign pumped out. And they will be mighty cheesed off when nothing changes for years.

I'm really pleased the population is filled with democratic zeal and wants to change society for the good. So are we agreed, the House of Lords is the next undemocratic curse we need to rid ourselves of?

[bobthebuilder]

Originally Posted by Sector-9

The majority *didn't* ignore the predictions, they considered the short time pain worth it for the longer term gains. We're fully expecting things to be more expensive and uncertain for the next few years, but it's a price we've proven willing to pay to govern ourselves without outside interference. Had the EU offered a better deal to Cameron earlier this year then the vote could have been very different. I want to see how many other countries keep their faith in the EU over the next few years; I suspect that though we were first to leave, we may not be the last.

That's a great post apart from the first premise IMO. People DID ignore the economists predictions of economic pain to come.

On this very thread we had talk of 'error bars' to try and convince us the hundreds/thousands of economists and business leaders were wrong about us going into recession.

Here and on all available media platforms we were told these economists were the same ones that told us to go into the Euro and ERM etc, and we should ignore them.

I'm glad you admit there will be pain before the changes will have a chance to kick in. Few others did.

As for the EU now, it all depends if the governments wants to play hard ball with us and punish us for leaving and to deter others, or see it as an excuse to get out. Business may want tariff free trading with the UK, but they don't get to decide.

I also will never understand why DC gave up so early in trying to renegotiate when he had another year.

There are going to be interesting times ahead for sure:
The Tory party in crisis
The Labour party in crisis
The Lib Dems having disappeared
The make up scare stories at will party (UKIP) being smug, even though their leader doesn't seem to get on with all his MPs (of which there are one).