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Old 28th August 2018, 18:21   #21
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Originally Posted by Forestgreen View Post
Out of curiosity which is the better sales strategy - tempting buyers to upgrade a basic model with gazillions of options, or having a standard model that throws in the kitchen sink and everything else conceivable? I can't help wonder whether a built-in inefficiency with the 75 production line was that if was offered in about a hundred different colours, with multiple interior colour schemes, then lots of different entertainment options, driver convenience options, wheel options etc. Wouldn't that complicate the assembly line? To take one luxury car from the same era, the Jaguar XJ in comparison, it came in barely half a dozen different shades.
I don't think that is a problem with modern assembly plants, look at Mini. When I did a factory tour a few yeas ago the guide was telling us that it is very rare for two cars to be the same, there are so many options they could make a million cars and none were the same, he was explaining to us adding some options at the dealer is near on impossible as each loom is made for each car with no spare wires. I think Transit productions lines are the same.

I am sure making each car the same bar the colour is a lot easier an cheaper but if Mini can make a 1000 cars a day it cant be that difficult.

Something I remembered today, I remember my father having an Opel on test in the 70's. He was not keen but the dealer let him have it for a couple of weeks and as we were going to Cornwall on holiday we took it. Two days into the holiday it would not start as the battery was flat, he called the local dealer who towed it away. The following day it was returned with a new battery and alternator, two days later the same again. The car was towed away and we were given something else. Eventually the dealer told us to take the other car home as they could get to the bottom of the fault.

I think a lot of the problem from the 70's and 80's was that cars were less reliable in general, some dealers were very good at fixing the teething troubles and others were not. Better quality control on new parts at the factories went a long way to getting past these teething troubles. We have all heard of Ford burning out cams in the 70s and my dad would always say if you saw a car broken down in a traffic jam it was usually French and he was correct. Electronic ignition was another leap forward in car reliability and once most cars had electric fans overheating became a thing of the past.

BL dealers were often rubbish, I don't know if it was because of poor manufacturer support or overwork but I can remember my father being amazed at a Vauxhall dealer coming to him when he asked for a test drive rather than him having to go to them.
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Old 28th August 2018, 19:37   #22
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My feeling is that at the end of the day the products were not what people wanted to buy. When the bubble 200 and second gen 400 were launched, Rover tried to change a premium for a bit of chrome and often fake wood when there was not enough substance to the basic designs for then to be considered 'premium'. Then there was the issue of market positioning - pitching an Escort sized car like the 400 against the likes of the Mondeo as Rover did when it was first launched was never going to work. By the time the 25 and 45 came along, they were repositioned where they belonged, but by then they were very old cars and it was too late. Meanwhile, the 75, whilst a wonderful car, never properly fitted into any one established market segment - bigger than a 3 Series but smaller than a 5 Series didn't really help either. Then there was the question of image - Rover fell in love with 'retro', which was totally at odds with what a lot of the buying public were interested in - how many times have we heard the 75 referred to as an 'old man's car'? Even the poor old 25 didn't escape the twin headlamp and chrome grille treatment, all rather niche and somewhat reminiscent of those funny Japanese Mitsouka cars that were Nissan Micras with a traditional Jag front end grafted on. Meanwhile, the big players like Ford, VW, etc were providing what people wanted in terms of modernity, image and models that fitted into established positioning norms in the market.
That's my two penn'oth on the subject...
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Old 28th August 2018, 19:45   #23
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Sorry for the typo - should be "tried to CHARGE a premium"... flippin auto correct...
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Old 28th August 2018, 19:56   #24
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I could never understand why BMW who had any interest in purchasing them- they already dominated the British mid/large car market, evidently the most profitable section. The MiNI has proved a money spinner but that was a lot of money and a roundabout way to get the name and no certainty of its success. So what would induce a secretive family controlled car company to venture that amount of money. I think politics was a major factor in whether or not larger investment was made, and at the time the New Labour Government as others before only thought in 5year futures and no one wants to invest in a industry that may still fail or worse still succeed during the next governments (the opposition)! tenure. What did BMW get out of it apart from the MINI? maybe a pat on the back from other European government who saw the British car industry finally destroyed and their factory operations in UK waved through. Maybe some financial favours from the German Banks-lands Banks particularly. It suited a lot of organisations for MGRover to fail so it did. Chris.S.
A lot of truth here.
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Old 28th August 2018, 20:58   #25
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Apart from the above points, the reason was because the Phoenix 4 where taking a large amount of money and putting it into their retirement fund. When they were taken over by the Phoenix 4, BMW put a lot of money into a special fund for the company to use if required. This I believe was used but it seems no one knows what on. Also, when BMW sold to the Phoenix 4, I spoke to a gent who through his company experience had met and had knowledge of one in particular of the Phonix4. I said I was glad they had took the company over, and he said that the company would be gone in 5 years.And how long was it around............................................ ...5 years. This is not hearsay, this is true. You make your own conclusions from the above.I also believe that they were banned from being directors for some years after a court case .


I am proud to have known some of the best design engineers for Layland, HRG, Albion, McLaren, now working for Red Bull, and many of the marks owned by Rover. I am not so proud to have met some of the Management team of Rover in the last years of its life.
One of them told me that there were consultants who used to be managers in the company being paid silly money for six months of work.
The amounts of money being mentioned, would have easily been responsible, for the downfall of any company.
I hope the stories I was told, were just that stories. As if they were factual accounts, I am in no doubt that managerial mismanagement, and a small number of individuals lining their own pockets, were responsible for the demise of Britain’s last volume car manufacturer.


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Old 28th August 2018, 21:05   #26
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Out of curiosity which is the better sales strategy - tempting buyers to upgrade a basic model with gazillions of options, or having a standard model that throws in the kitchen sink and everything else conceivable? I can't help wonder whether a built-in inefficiency with the 75 production line was that if was offered in about a hundred different colours, with multiple interior colour schemes, then lots of different entertainment options, driver convenience options, wheel options etc. Wouldn't that complicate the assembly line? To take one luxury car from the same era, the Jaguar XJ in comparison, it came in barely half a dozen different shades.
Very true. The new car market now only allows a few colours included in the base price. Mostly white or black, an example is audi

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Old 28th August 2018, 22:22   #27
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The buying public had lost it's faith in anything to do with what was BL/Austin Rover because the models were atrocious I know I had quite a few of them and they were awful. There was a bit of a revival when it became Rover group and especially when the 75 came out but it was short lived, the retro look started to lose it's appeal and sales fell.

You've only got to look at the price lists of the competitors to work out another good reason, compared to the competition they were in the end overpriced.

Here's a good example the Volvo S60 a direct competitor to the 75 first built in 2000 and facelifted in 2004 and again in 2006.

https://www.volvoclub.org.uk/current...sTechSpecs.pdf

https://www.xpowerforums.com/Acrobat...ice%20List.pdf

Look at a diesel Connie SE, then a diesel S60 SE there's not a lot in it price wise, but the Volvo is better built, better equipped and has more safety features.

Without an absolutely enormous amount of cash input to develop new models it was always going to be just a matter of time before it folded. I've heard from a very reliable source who worked at the Roundhouse that he saw a Whiteboard where a meeting of the directors had taken place. On The board it said "THE END Sept 2003" circulled numorous times. If this is true and I have no reason to think otherwise, I think that MGR did well to continue as long as it did.



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Old 28th August 2018, 22:51   #28
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I blame the uk government and press for not backing the car industry. Too much negativity which most people believed.
Look at it now, barely exists. Same for british rail.
The attitude with, I think, all the nationalised industries was if there's a problem throw money at it. That was certainly the case with British Rail. I was a traincrew supervisor in the early '80s and it was common practice for managers to authorise 12 hours payment to get someone to work less than an hours overtime.
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Old 29th August 2018, 06:23   #29
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Originally Posted by Forestgreen View Post
Out of curiosity which is the better sales strategy - tempting buyers to upgrade a basic model with gazillions of options, or having a standard model that throws in the kitchen sink and everything else conceivable? I can't help wonder whether a built-in inefficiency with the 75 production line was that if was offered in about a hundred different colours, with multiple interior colour schemes, then lots of different entertainment options, driver convenience options, wheel options etc. Wouldn't that complicate the assembly line? To take one luxury car from the same era, the Jaguar XJ in comparison, it came in barely half a dozen different shades.

Interesting question Forestgreen..
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Old 29th August 2018, 08:25   #30
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I can only offer my opinion as someone who was still in school when MG Rover went under. In 2005 I was 12 so not long left primary school (jeez that makes me feel old).

As a schoolkid with a keen interest in cars, I really didn't see the appeal of MG Rover cars at all and this is because they had such an old-fashioned image - but I'm not talking about the 'old mans car' effect, but rather that it was clear how old the designs were. Also, having no new models on the cards gave the company no chance to interest a new generation of car buyers.

I didn't realise at the time the financial issues the company had though, so that explains the lack of development of a new model or two. But it wasn't until recently that I came to know just how wasteful their spending was.

Apparently they absolutely poured money into racing in the 24 Hours of Le Mans - I can't see how that was a good idea with everything else they had going on. Seems to me that the Phoenix Four were just having a good time splashing the cash.

It's only now that I'm so bored of all the samey-samey rubbish on the road that I've grown a soft spot for the MG Rover marque as it's a little different and you don't see them so much anymore. They're quite a bit more interesting in my opinion than all the dreary Euroboxes on the road.
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