Anyone got a wind turbine?

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Rich

As per title really.

I keep looking at these:

http://windsave.staging.atwwwuk.com/page.asp?partid=108

Total cost, including installation is only £1,500 and government grants are available and it will save around a third off your electricity bill. Which means the ROI is around three years and this is what's putting me off.

This kind of technology for the home is still in its infancy, my concern is that if I invest in this, sods law (and moores law technically!) says that in three years time the technology will be far better and turbines offering 50% or more savings will be available for the same cost.

Your thoughts ladies and gentlemen?

The only way to be green at the moment is top notch insulation to your house and heat recovery extraction systems. Plus if your heating system is in need of replacement to move over to the High Efficiency (HE) boilers, avoid combi's.

[Keith]

I ordered the Windsave last year before B&Q got in on the act and the price came down, to ther credit Windsave immediately wrote and reduced the price

At the moment the install is on hold as to qualify for the grant I need to install cavity wall insulation etc the Grant will bring the price down to £1000

Then I will need planning permission as you can't just put these up yet

I had a surveyor round from Mark Insulation the approved installer.
He was appalling, zero knowledge of the product, zero electrical knowledge and zero knowledge of building construction truly an unpleasant experience.

The "installed price" basically means bolt it in a primarily Westerly facing direction in an as easy to fit position as poss, in this case he recommended the gable end of my Bungalow

Too low I said
What about low frequency noise from cavitation I asked
I would like a price to put it on a mast I said
I want to put it on an isolated ring main running a couple of UPSs for constant power

He didn't have a clue!

He did want me to sign an order there and then with a caveat agreeing they could install it without planning permission, bog off I said

I have written to Windsave asking for cavitation info and a supply only price
but if I install myself I can't apply for the grant

I had a letter today from them apologising for the installation delay ???

They are altering the design and software of the inverter to up the efficiency

The good news is they have orders for 120,000! that means if true they will become mainstream so prices will drop rapidly

I will probably now wait for 2KW to become available for less than £1000 (it was around £6000 a few years ago).

We have sufficient wind here to justify running one

The solar water collectors at B&Q are disgustingly cheap and nasty and about 10 times over priced

Solar Hot water if done sensibly is by far the cheapest and most cost effective green solution for most homes bare in mind if choosing a unvented direct tank it must be professionally installed and inspected annually

Even the simple solar HW setup I have on my chalet roof is amazingly effective.

The reality is with energy prices rising green alternatives are becoming Viable

A day out at the CAT centre in Wales is very very worthwhile

[Tim]

Keith not too sure about your local authority but in some locations one unit can be installed as 'permitted development'. As long as you have not used up your points allocation on a massive extension . A phone call the the planning department would sort it out.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Tim

The only way to be green at the moment is top notch insulation to your house and heat recovery extraction systems. Plus if your heating system is in need of replacement to move over to the High Efficiency (HE) boilers, avoid combi's.

Hi Tim heat recovery can be difficult to retrofit well as it really needs to be designed in.

I priced it for my Bungalow but it was not cost effective if seen as purely heat recovery when combined as part of a whole house ventilation system it made more sense

At the moment we have a simplified system the extract heat from the lounge when the Wood Burners is on and pumps it around the house which work very well

As for boilers yes the newish Combi I have despite supposedly being a HE boiler if simply dreadful badly engineered and very in efficient at providing DHW

Will be switching to a twin coil unvented tank and (DIY) flat plate solar collectors soon.

Karen has just been asked to join the schools green committee so I will be looking into grants for a couple of large scale installs on the school roof soon which won't be a bad thing as I need to take a break from these motoring forums they are getting too addictive and we all have real lives to lead!

[Tim]

Originally Posted by Keith

Hi Tim heat recovery can be difficult to retrofit well as it really needs to be designed in.

I priced it for my Bungalow but it was not cost effective if seen as purely heat recovery when combined as part of a whole house ventilation system it made more sense

At the moment we have a simplified system the extract heat from the lounge when the Wood Burners is on and pumps it around the house which work very well

As for boilers yes the newish Combi I have despite supposedly being a HE boiler if simply dreadful badly engineered and very in efficient at providing DHW

Will be switching to a twin coil unvented tank and (DIY) flat plate solar collectors soon.

Karen has just been asked to join the schools green committee so I will be looking into grants for a couple of large scale installs on the school roof soon which won't be a bad thing as I need to take a break from these motoring forums they are getting too addictive and we all have real lives to lead!

There you go, you mention two elements you could combine into one The boiler we (work) have been looking into is a wood pellet burning unit which produces fine ash. The btu rates from these boilers is looking to be very good, the only problem at the mo is there are only about three pellet producers so like the turbines not quite there yet in cost but a tip to all, keep an eye out for them. Because the burn rate is good the ash is minimal and can be sent up to Keith for his garden. A win : win situation then

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Tim

Keith not too sure about your local authority but in some locations one unit can be installed as 'permitted development'. As long as you have not used up your points allocation on a massive extension . A phone call the the planning department would sort it out.

Yes done that they sent me a huge wedge of paperwork to fill in before they decide if PP is needed!

I think for a decent mast (18M) it will be a definite and ditto at the end of the bungalow as that is within ear shot of my nearest neighbour

but in June last year an act was passed making PP for small scale wind turbines unnecessary but it has not flowed down to local gov office for interpretation yet

moral of the story Wind turbines I reckon will be taking off in a big way later this year when PP issues etc are sorted or relaxed bit like Sky dishes when they were first available.

Building regs will still apply though

I will be putting up a small turbine in the spring at the end of my field 12v to a battery to run a decent pump in my pond as I like a bit of moving water.

[Keith]

Talking of Boilers anyone got a Geo Thermal heat pump?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Keith

I want to put it on an isolated ring main running a couple of UPSs for constant power

Now THAT sir, is an interesting idea!!

And theoretically entirely possible and relatively easy to do ones self...

Hmmm....

Do we have a :thinkingcap: smilie?

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Rich

Now THAT sir, is an interesting idea!!

And theoretically entirely possible and relatively easy to do ones self...

Hmmm....

Do we have a :thinkingcap: smilie?

Not quite as it introduces inefficiencies by going turbine > inverter > ups internal inverter > ups batteries > AC out

The right way is a DC generator to leisure batteries to AC inverter
But I just happen to have a 6 KW inline UPS so worth using it!

Consider this, what in the long run would be more efficient?
10 x 100W wind turbines or 1 x 1KW turbine in low wind conditions the little ones will be going sooner and stay going longer than one big one!