Clutch needs replacing again after 4k miles-please help

[RPWC]

Originally Posted by marinabrian

I don't know about that, the LUK Repset Pro I fitted seven years ago to my old man's car just before I sold it, has now covered 180000 miles with it's new owner.

Horses for courses, and the way they're fitted makes a huge difference.

Brian

I agree totally with that. As you know well Brian , in the 5 years I had the first 75, it had 3 slave cylinders, 2 masters and 2 friction and pressure plates. 1 dmf and when I sold it the dmf was in needx of replacement again. Was luk parts that were fitted first time, but the fitter I'm sure damaged something in the gearbox, otherwise why did the slave fail within 8 months, the oil seal after 15 months, then the slave and master 18 months later??

[Rp61973]

Originally Posted by EastPete

Your clutch judder and release bearing noise is probably due to poor fitting technique and lack of lubrication of the input shaft splines and the guide tube that the slave sits on.

Pete

Thanks Pete. I meant to say slave and clutch; the master is fine as I replaced it late last year.

[RobSun]

Originally Posted by mss

As I said earlier, it is the CSC and less often the M/C that usually fail.

Why not ask our real experts (as opposed to someone who sells one or the other) whether they would choose to fit an Luk/AP or one of the many alternative hydraulic components?

You appear to be basing your position on the basis of one sample - that is never a good approach.

Totally wrong I am great friends with Big Russ and he is now advising all who ask, DO NOT BUY A MANUAL 75/ZT. His experiences with his customers are that this is a common complaint and he has seen a good number fail like mine. And its not just one supplier of these parts it goes across the manufacturers. One of Big Russ's customers having had one manufacturer fail replaced with the metal variants and had them fail also within a very short time. Another had three clutch sets in five years using different suppliers all with hydraulic failures. I understand these were fitted by a local MGR rated specialist garage. In my case it was a Borg and Beck kit LUK hydraulics all fitted properly by Trikey. Are you going to tell me one of the most trusted trades in the club doesn't know what he's doing Brian.

I had Andy Willie change the MC because Trikey was too far away, the car immobile and Andy lives within reasonable traveling distance and offered to come and help me out. I asked him what product I should replace it with and was looking at a TAZU, and I quote. "There's no difference in the quality and life span of any of the suppliers. I've seen your issues lots of times and no one maker is better than the other in my experience. I've had Tazu's fail out of the box and the rest, one's as good as the other. Stick with the LUK it won't be any better or worse".

This is the reason I base my position, on the information gathered by our trusted trader members, (mainly Russell's) experiences, as well as my own. Taking advise from experts on where do I get a reliable supplier so that I have a usable reliable car, and told you will not find one. Unlike yourself who has only his own opinions that he likes to express on many subjects.

So to repeat myself, I looked into all the evidence and information before I decided on a product, including knowledge gained rom working with and supplying two clutch manufacturers, before choosing again LUK.

I didn't base my position on one sample and asked the best experts and came up with my reasoning heavily influenced by them. Hope that answers your criticisms of me and see that I have a good approach to this subject

The quality of the parts manufactured for these clutches are of a very questionable quality and manufacturers badly let down their customers who pay out good money and then its pot luck if you get a substandard or good product. This is undoubtable causing good cars to go to the scrappy and owners like me giving up on their cars.

[marinabrian]

Originally Posted by RobSun

Totally wrong I am great friends with Big Russ and he is now advising all who ask, DO NOT BUY A MANUAL 75/ZT. His experiences with his customers are that this is a common complaint and he has seen a good number fail like mine. And its not just one supplier of these parts it goes across the manufacturers. One of Big Russ's customers having had one manufacturer fail replaced with the metal variants and had them fail also within a very short time. Another had three clutch sets in five years using different suppliers all with hydraulic failures. I understand these were fitted by a local MGR rated specialist garage. In my case it was a Borg and Beck kit LUK hydraulics all fitted properly by Trikey. Are you going to tell me one of the most trusted trades in the club doesn't know what he's doing Brian.

I had Andy Willie change the MC because Trikey was too far away, the car immobile and Andy lives within reasonable traveling distance and offered to come and help me out. I asked him what product I should replace it with and was looking at a TAZU, and I quote. "There's no difference in the quality and life span of any of the suppliers. I've seen your issues lots of times and no one maker is better than the other in my experience. I've had Tazu's fail out of the box and the rest, one's as good as the other. Stick with the LUK it won't be any better or worse".

This is the reason I base my position, on the information gathered by our trusted trader members, (mainly Russell's) experiences, as well as my own. Taking advise from experts on where do I get a reliable supplier so that I have a usable reliable car, and told you will not find one. Unlike yourself who has only his own opinions that he likes to express on many subjects.

So to repeat myself, I looked into all the evidence and information before I decided on a product, including knowledge gained rom working with and supplying two clutch manufacturers, before choosing again LUK.

I didn't base my position on one sample and asked the best experts and came up with my reasoning heavily influenced by them. Hope that answers your criticisms of me and see that I have a good approach to this subject

The quality of the parts manufactured for these clutches are of a very questionable quality and manufacturers badly let down their customers who pay out good money and then its pot luck if you get a substandard or good product. This is undoubtable causing good cars to go to the scrappy and owners like me giving up on their cars.

I would go one further and never recommend these days anyone buy any 75 or ZT......certainly as a daily driver.

I can only speak from experience, I've certainly not fitted as many clutches as some, but certainly have fitted them as they should have been fitted

There is only one "specialist trader" or former trader in this area, who's methods are questionable at best, downright shoddy at worst, but there are too many variables to place blame at the door of one manufacturer.

But you have to admit, there must be a quality discrepancy between a clutch kit costing £32 and one costing £180.

Brian

P.S. having owned a diesel automatic, arguably the most sought after combination, I would never have another, in fact I turned down a couple of weeks ago a very nice example of a ZT diesel for free, based upon the fact it was an automatic.

[Blink]

Originally Posted by marinabrian

I would go one further and never recommend these days anyone buy any 75 or ZT......certainly as a daily driver.

Because of the clutch - or in general?

[MSS]

Originally Posted by RobSun

Totally wrong I am great friends with Big Russ and he is now advising all who ask, DO NOT BUY A MANUAL 75/ZT. His experiences with his customers are that this is a common complaint and he has seen a good number fail like mine. And its not just one supplier of these parts it goes across the manufacturers. One of Big Russ's customers having had one manufacturer fail replaced with the metal variants and had them fail also within a very short time. Another had three clutch sets in five years using different suppliers all with hydraulic failures. I understand these were fitted by a local MGR rated specialist garage. In my case it was a Borg and Beck kit LUK hydraulics all fitted properly by Trikey. Are you going to tell me one of the most trusted trades in the club doesn't know what he's doing Brian.

I had Andy Willie change the MC because Trikey was too far away, the car immobile and Andy lives within reasonable traveling distance and offered to come and help me out. I asked him what product I should replace it with and was looking at a TAZU, and I quote. "There's no difference in the quality and life span of any of the suppliers. I've seen your issues lots of times and no one maker is better than the other in my experience. I've had Tazu's fail out of the box and the rest, one's as good as the other. Stick with the LUK it won't be any better or worse".

This is the reason I base my position, on the information gathered by our trusted trader members, (mainly Russell's) experiences, as well as my own. Taking advise from experts on where do I get a reliable supplier so that I have a usable reliable car, and told you will not find one. Unlike yourself who has only his own opinions that he likes to express on many subjects.

So to repeat myself, I looked into all the evidence and information before I decided on a product, including knowledge gained rom working with and supplying two clutch manufacturers, before choosing again LUK.

I didn't base my position on one sample and asked the best experts and came up with my reasoning heavily influenced by them. Hope that answers your criticisms of me and see that I have a good approach to this subject

The quality of the parts manufactured for these clutches are of a very questionable quality and manufacturers badly let down their customers who pay out good money and then its pot luck if you get a substandard or good product. This is undoubtable causing good cars to go to the scrappy and owners like me giving up on their cars.

Just to add to Brian's post, I think you are reaching the incorrect conclusion based on the information in your possession.

Personally, for our cars there is only one kit that I would trust - that is Luk. I would not trust any of the others. The others are all suppliers of parts that are either manufactured by someone else or do not have the breadth and depth of experience (heritage) in designing/testing clutch parts.

Luk will have a failure rate, like all engineering products do, but this will be very low compared with all the generic items of unkown origin.

[RobSun]

Originally Posted by mss

Just to add to Brian's post, I think you are reaching the incorrect conclusion based on the information in your possession.

Personally, for our cars there is only one kit that I would trust - that is Luk. I would not trust any of the others. The others are all suppliers of parts that are either manufactured by someone else or do not have the breadth and depth of experience (heritage) in designing/testing clutch parts.

Luk will have a failure rate, like all engineering products do, but this will be very low compared with all the generic items of unkown origin.

You accuse me of not knowing my facts when I do. Not doing my homework when I did. Getting the facts from the very people you said I should have done before I originally posted and was going through the problems. If Big Russ and Andy Willie tell me that LUK products fail as often as the generic products you avoid, as mine did, a company through personal experiences of working with on manufacturing and design, well I think I will take their advice from their extensive knowledge than your limited knowledge.

I don't know your background but I know mine and it includes extensive work with engineering groups who manufacturer parts for the motor industry.. Both the original companies, original suppliers and generic suppliers. These generic suppliers are often the original suppliers, sometimes its the other way round. Often parts like seals came from one supplier so a fault in their runs effect all. In some case and more often than you think one place manufactured on contract and supplied the generic parts and the original suppliers parts. Often my company. I've seen Saab, Rover and Ford parts, all made in the same plant and ending up with the end prices ranging from for example 40 GDP to 109 GDP dependent on the parts suppliers box its in. As the number of cars falls and so the part production rates fall prices go up. People will not pay so to keep supplying the production goes out to tender to the cheapest supplier. Then you get the price you want to pay but quality falls. Simple really, and that's what' I believe is happening here and with other components. I own classic cars and this is a big problem here. Parts are cheap because people do not want to pay the real cost of quality and then complain when they need to be replaced regularly. This is what's starting to happen with MGR parts. You so far like many others have been fortunate with the quality, a large number of us haven't, and it's a significant number..

You may have an opinion based on your experience that LUK can be relied upon, an opinion I had also.. Facts and evidence provided to me changed my mind it's pot luck where you get these clutch parts from, the iffy quality seems to be the same from all of them where MGR clutches are concerned.my conclusions based on the facts I posses are correct.

[marinabrian]

Originally Posted by Blink

Because of the clutch - or in general?

Not because of the clutch, but in general.

These cars are not in their first flush of youth, and unless you are proficient with the spanners, or have deep pockets, they are not a particularly good runaround.

Having said all that, I own three, and look after a couple more on a regular basis, and when they are kept well they are very nice.

However you should be aware as all that glitters is not gold, and cars which look presentable on top, often look like they've been dredged up from the bottom of the ocean underneath, and that is where it becomes a pain to keep on top of things.

Brian

[MSS]

Originally Posted by RobSun

You accuse me of not knowing my facts when I do. Not doing my homework when I did. Getting the facts from the very people you said I should have done before I originally posted and was going through the problems. If Big Russ and Andy Willie tell me that LUK products fail as often as the generic products you avoid, as mine did, a company through personal experiences of working with on manufacturing and design, well I think I will take their advice from their extensive knowledge than your limited knowledge.

I don't know your background but I know mine and it includes extensive work with engineering groups who manufacturer parts for the motor industry.. Both the original companies, original suppliers and generic suppliers. These generic suppliers are often the original suppliers, sometimes its the other way round. Often parts like seals came from one supplier so a fault in their runs effect all. In some case and more often than you think one place manufactured on contract and supplied the generic parts and the original suppliers parts. Often my company. I've seen Saab, Rover and Ford parts, all made in the same plant and ending up with the end prices ranging from for example 40 GDP to 109 GDP dependent on the parts suppliers box its in. As the number of cars falls and so the part production rates fall prices go up. People will not pay so to keep supplying the production goes out to tender to the cheapest supplier. Then you get the price you want to pay but quality falls. Simple really, and that's what' I believe is happening here and with other components. I own classic cars and this is a big problem here. Parts are cheap because people do not want to pay the real cost of quality and then complain when they need to be replaced regularly. This is what's starting to happen with MGR parts. You so far like many others have been fortunate with the quality, a large number of us haven't, and it's a significant number..

You may have an opinion based on your experience that LUK can be relied upon, an opinion I had also.. Facts and evidence provided to me changed my mind it's pot luck where you get these clutch parts from, the iffy quality seems to be the same from all of them where MGR clutches are concerned.my conclusions based on the facts I posses are correct.

I guess I must be doing something horribly wrong as I just do not have any of the problems that it appears would stop you from purchasing a manual 75/ZT as advised by your experts.

I will reiterate that your view about the quality of generic parts vs those from manufacturers with an engineering heritage and OEM presence is fundamentally flawed.

[RPWC]

Originally Posted by marinabrian

Not because of the clutch, but in general.

These cars are not in their first flush of youth, and unless you are proficient with the spanners, or have deep pockets, they are not a particularly good runaround.

Having said all that, I own three, and look after a couple more on a regular basis, and when they are kept well they are very nice.

However you should be aware as all that glitters is not gold, and cars which look presentable on top, often look like they've been dredged up from the bottom of the ocean underneath, and that is where it becomes a pain to keep on top of things.

Brian

At least they ate fitted with brake pad wear indicators, unlike the Insignia which only hss squealer shims.