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Old 12th August 2018, 13:22   #11
Sheraton
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to complicate matters a bit more.........

the supplier of the Payen Gasket/Bolts has replied stating -

"Thank you for your email. That is not the correct part for your vehicle.

I have looked on our system for the right part and unfortunately we do not stock that part and in the short term do not plan to order it in."


lol........ I'm sure the parts ARE Correct


Payen BW750 (GUG702576HG LVB000230 LVB1000760 LVB10010)

according to Rimmers LVB000230 is no longer available - LVB000321 being the replacement.

and, LVB000321 being listed for the 1.8t

So this IS the right part.... or am i missing something ?


Payen HBS005 WAM2293

Rimmers has WAM2293 listed for the 1.8t

So these ARE the correct Bolts.....or again, am i missing something ?







Paul.
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Old 12th August 2018, 13:46   #12
Lovel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheraton View Post
to complicate matters a bit more.........

the supplier of the Payen Gasket/Bolts has replied stating -

"Thank you for your email. That is not the correct part for your vehicle.

I have looked on our system for the right part and unfortunately we do not stock that part and in the short term do not plan to order it in."


lol........ I'm sure the parts ARE Correct


Payen BW750 (GUG702576HG LVB000230 LVB1000760 LVB10010)

according to Rimmers LVB000230 is no longer available - LVB000321 being the replacement.

and, LVB000321 being listed for the 1.8t

So this IS the right part.... or am i missing something ?


Payen HBS005 WAM2293

Rimmers has WAM2293 listed for the 1.8t

So these ARE the correct Bolts.....or again, am i missing something ?







Paul.
Payen BW750 elastomer head gasket in blue.

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Old 12th August 2018, 13:54   #13
Sheraton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovel View Post
Payen BW750 elastomer head gasket in blue.



No Image shown on the listing from this supplier.......which doesn't concern me.


I've contacted them - asking why they THINK the parts are wrong


I'm sure they are the correct parts they have advertised - they even Have them Listed for a ZT 1.8......



I've suggested I'll order them and take responsibility for them being "Correct"




Paul.
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Old 13th August 2018, 13:28   #14
Sheraton
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Payen Gasket and Bolts ordered today.



this will be all my parts Sourced for the works to begin


I may consider.....well I AM Considering, using Blue Coolant rather than OAT we'll see - the suspicion being that OAT eats away at the Elastomer beading on the Gasket


I'll be interested to get eyes on the currently installed Gasket etc..

I have the MG/Rover liquid Gasket for the Camshaft Bearing Ladder I suspect the Black liquid Gasket used when the Head Gasket repair was done on my car is not the best



Paul.
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Old 13th August 2018, 13:44   #15
Lovel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheraton View Post
Payen Gasket and Bolts ordered today.



this will be all my parts Sourced for the works to begin


I may consider.....well I AM Considering, using Blue Coolant rather than OAT we'll see - the suspicion being that OAT eats away at the Elastomer beading on the Gasket


I'll be interested to get eyes on the currently installed Gasket etc..

I have the MG/Rover liquid Gasket for the Camshaft Bearing Ladder I suspect the Black liquid Gasket used when the Head Gasket repair was done on my car is not the best



Paul.
The elastomer does not dissolve away. It's the adhesive bond between the elastomer and the gasket that fails due to pressure differentials over time between the cooling system and the oil system. If the elastomer material is EPDM for example it will react with hydrocarbon and swell causing the adhesive bond to be lost. However I have never found out what material the elastomer on the gasket is made of. Never seen OAT damage so far on elastomer and have been running OAT since the changeover in 2000ish?, perhaps the plastic components may be subject embrittlement to an extent. Example photos shown on here of elastomer damage looks to be more from assembly issues of cutting or dry rolling the o-ring.

Don't clart the cam bearing or bearing ladder with sealant, apply ever so thinly thinly so it does not extrude into the oilways.

BTW Honda bond is superior to any RTV and has a really good adherence after many thousands of miles it still holds.
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Old 13th August 2018, 14:13   #16
Sheraton
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Cheers Lovel

I think Coolant choice will wait til after I've had a look at the condition of the currently installed Gasket etc..

I also plan on changing a few O-rings - so may be worth considering possible affects Silicate could have on these i.e Nitrile/Viton...


I found a Service Bulletin from Federal Mogul r.e the Payen BW750 change from Red to Blue "Silicone" - "C30 Silicone" - is mentioned as the Elastomer Material and the change from Red to Blue is only Cosmetic.




Paul.
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Old 14th August 2018, 12:31   #17
Sheraton
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Payen Cylinder Head Bolts arrived today - no Head Gasket both items ordered from the same supplier at the same time - the Bolts were sent by Fedex, Gasket is being delivered by Royal Mail I'm sure they have their reasons for it



tightening procedure is 20nmx90x90x90x90 degrees i assume 9.8 tensile rating.





Paul.
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Old 14th August 2018, 16:32   #18
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Now that i've had a look - the Bolts appear to be 10.9 Tensile Rating - 10.9 is stamped on the Bolt heads - so seems a fair assumption.

according to Federal Mogul (cheers Brian ) the torque sequence is 20nmx90x90x90x90 degrees Good enough for me.



I've also heard claims of folks having signs of external Head Gasket leaking after having work done with the Revised torque procedure of 180x135 - and claims that after adding another 45 degrees torque rotation all is well


it makes me wonder.....where did the revised specs come from ?

I've found no technical bulletins relating to these revisions - is it a Land Rover revision ? relating only to the MLS Gasket and upgraded Oil Rail after all ?



I'll follow the procedure supplied with the bolts



it would be nice if we could state with certainty the reason/validity for any revision to the standard torque procedure/specs




Paul.
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Old 16th August 2018, 11:04   #19
Sheraton
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Payen BW750 arrived today - All appears well


I'm happy with the parts i have - and happy r.e torque sequence



the Payen BW750 was my first choice - some places have this priced in the "it must be Good Quality" range .....lol.....ok a bit "Expensive" - when compared with other brands parts

it's possible to purchase Bolts and (Elastomer)Gasket for as little as £40... maybe £43 - which may be tempting to some.

the supplier I used has Payen Bolts and Gasket for £74.43 delivered




Paul.
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Old 16th August 2018, 13:51   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheraton View Post
>>snip<<I think i may have read one of your posts elsewhere online recently from a few years back.

(I've not had my hands on the Oil Rail yet so i'm not sure if Bolts can thread all the way through the Rail, Or if they can get Bottomed Out?)

Paul.
Paul, they do thread right through the oil rail as I found to my detriment when I managed actually pierce the sump pan ... long story.
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