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Old 18th April 2022, 13:29   #31
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Originally Posted by COLVERT View Post
They are supposed to be OEM parts but very rarely are. The bush must never be a tight fit on the arm. This WILL destroy it.
The ONLY way is to carefully reduce the arm size.

As I said in a previous post early failures were blamed on the bushes when they were actually on the road to disaster from the word go by poor fitting.

Use a jack=shooting yourself in the foot.----

It will simply introduce a problem that will NOT solve itself.



I think we disagree on this one as yesterday the only way to get the bush on was with the bottle jack press method in the doorway using oil filter socket 32mm as slip ring and ample fairy lube then there is no damage to the bush as the socket pushes only on the inner ring and passes over the arm nicely tp push the bush on without drama.
I have noticed there is more rubber in the middle of the bushes than when i frst started doing this only a couple of years ago but it makes them tighter and harder to press on but none of the rubber ever comes out or splits using this method and yes it leaves the bush on the arm nice and tight how it ought to be but care has to be taken to align it up right otherwise fitting will be near impossible and premature wear is certain as you rightly suggest. I always have the old arm infront of me with the bush on to match it up and best to be conservative when pressing on as its not easy pulling it back if you go to far even by just 1mm its best to be not far enough by 1mm then press on again till its perfect. If not right the car soon tells you the bush bolts wont go in without a major fight. I chuckled yesterday putting the arm back on as the rear bolt went flush in with minimal manipulation and i was able to do it up all the way with fingers then torqued up in the usual way, for that i thanked the almighty and a precision focused approach to his method it is better to plod than steam on carelessly.

I dont know how to get these bushes on any other way and reducing the arm down as you suggest seems wrong to me as its in spec as supplied or its not right from there imo. I have both lower front bushes on this car applied in this way so will let you know should they fail early hows that?

Would be interesting to find out what RAVE says lol.
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Old 18th April 2022, 15:52   #32
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Would be interesting to find out what RAVE says lol.
It says use service tools 99-022, 60-020, 60-021, 60-022 & 60-023!
These are a multi-part puller specifically designed for removal and refitting the bush. How many MG Rover garages invested in those do you think?

Regarding the correct positioning of the bush, RAVE refers to alignment marks on the suspension arm to aid this. The drawing is very imprecise and I struggled to identify them so I scribed a line before removing the old bush which worked a treat!

Simon
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Old 18th April 2022, 18:49   #33
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It says use service tools 99-022, 60-020, 60-021, 60-022 & 60-023!
These are a multi-part puller specifically designed for removal and refitting the bush. How many MG Rover garages invested in those do you think?

Regarding the correct positioning of the bush, RAVE refers to alignment marks on the suspension arm to aid this. The drawing is very imprecise and I struggled to identify them so I scribed a line before removing the old bush which worked a treat!

Simon

cheers for that, ive looked and looked on every arm i have done and never seen any position markings for the bush lol and ive gone thru 4 different arms now with the last one from DMGRS and seemed to be pretty good quality both arm and bush.
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Old 18th April 2022, 18:59   #34
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There are no markings on any arms these days, I cannot recall ever seeing any to be honest?

Some of the arms offered today are woeful, poor castings, and flash that has to be removed before the bush can be fitted, its all an added challenge to the DIY mechanic these days.
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Old 18th April 2022, 19:21   #35
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There are no markings on any arms these days, I cannot recall ever seeing any to be honest?

Some of the arms offered today are woeful, poor castings, and flash that has to be removed before the bush can be fitted, its all an added challenge to the DIY mechanic these days.
You are correct Trikey there were never any Mark's on the arms for the rear bushes
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Old 19th April 2022, 11:52   #36
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There are no markings on any arms these days, I cannot recall ever seeing any to be honest?

Some of the arms offered today are woeful, poor castings, and flash that has to be removed before the bush can be fitted, its all an added challenge to the DIY mechanic these days.
Exactly that--Terrible castings.

Some folk just won't listen. --In total denial I guess.--

Now I know where the expression---"Making a rod for ones own back"----comes from.---


AS for markings, they are not required as all these parts differ.--They align themselves when fitted in the correct fashion.--( Free to move relative to each other. )

Hydraulic press---whatever next !!!



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Old 19th April 2022, 13:41   #37
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Exactly that--Terrible castings.

Some folk just won't listen. --In total denial I guess.--

Now I know where the expression---"Making a rod for ones own back"----comes from.---


AS for markings, they are not required as all these parts differ.--They align themselves when fitted in the correct fashion.--( Free to move relative to each other. )

Hydraulic press---whatever next !!!



Lets clear something up once and for all, this orthodoxy of dont press bushes on with a hydraulic jack is backed by what technical manual?? Now dont get me wrong it can be done awfully or it can be done right if careful and steady approach is taken. The 32mm socket slip ring is mandatory to avoid damage and much care needs to be taken as it will squirm about under load with all that fairy lube.


I dont believe these arms are designed to move in the bush that is what the bush is for, happy to be proven wrong i just want to learn but it makes no sense to have lateral movement of the arm in the bush it defeats the purpose of the bush?


At initial fitting even if pressed on carefully the arm and bush is lubed up and so long as care is taken at fitting to ensure the bush is pressed on in the correct place on the arm which becomes easily apparent when and after the bush bolts are fitted and the arm is located properly in all its correct holes the arm then has an opportunity to move under the weight of the car whilst still lubed but that window is short as the fairy lube will dry up quickly so i drop it, drive it and then inspect to ensure the bush is aligned right to be ocd but if the bolts go in without a fight you know its right and i can do it by sight now ive done 4 lol. ( i know a keen diy'er thats all)

Upon further inspection the bush should be sitting nicely and not stressed nor should the outer ring have moved from the casting which would indicate extreme mis alignment under the weight of the car. The last bush i was able to push in by hand using some wood and my brute force turned out to be mis pressed into its casting by about 10 Deg and i had a fine black rubber powder all over the wheel which i thought might been from a failing caliper but no the bush was mangled as it was supplied wrongly pressed into its casting. This is the bush and arm i replaced last year when i first used my hydraulic press to carefully press the new bush on to a new arm as there is no other way of doing it without modifying ether the bush or the arm both of which as stated where quality oem parts with no flash.

Now i have put oem arms and bushes on both sides of my ZTT using this method as refuse to start modifying oem parts that should arrive in spec. Looking at it another way what would be the outcome if I did shave material off the arm to slip the bush on and next week there is a serious incident requiring crash scene investigation who inspects the car and finds the oem part has been recently modified in such a way by the fitter. If something bad happens now the part supplier/manufacturer might have questions to answer rather than the diy fitter. In short there is liability for the modification of oem parts away from spec.

I am here to challenge the orthodoxy and be laughed at for it as some people can get set in there ways, thats all..
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Old 19th April 2022, 17:14   #38
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I dont believe these arms are designed to move in the bush ... it defeats the purpose of the bush?
I'm inclined to agree with you here John.
The hexagonal profile obviously locks the arm and bush together rotationally and I don't see how the arm could move fore-and-aft when it is located by the inner balljoint.

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Old 20th April 2022, 00:59   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retap View Post
Lets clear something up once and for all, this orthodoxy of dont press bushes on with a hydraulic jack is backed by what technical manual?? Now dont get me wrong it can be done awfully or it can be done right if careful and steady approach is taken. The 32mm socket slip ring is mandatory to avoid damage and much care needs to be taken as it will squirm about under load with all that fairy lube.


I dont believe these arms are designed to move in the bush that is what the bush is for, happy to be proven wrong i just want to learn but it makes no sense to have lateral movement of the arm in the bush it defeats the purpose of the bush?


At initial fitting even if pressed on carefully the arm and bush is lubed up and so long as care is taken at fitting to ensure the bush is pressed on in the correct place on the arm which becomes easily apparent when and after the bush bolts are fitted and the arm is located properly in all its correct holes the arm then has an opportunity to move under the weight of the car whilst still lubed but that window is short as the fairy lube will dry up quickly so i drop it, drive it and then inspect to ensure the bush is aligned right to be ocd but if the bolts go in without a fight you know its right and i can do it by sight now ive done 4 lol. ( i know a keen diy'er thats all)

Upon further inspection the bush should be sitting nicely and not stressed nor should the outer ring have moved from the casting which would indicate extreme mis alignment under the weight of the car.
Quote:
The last bush i was able to push in by hand using some wood and my brute force turned out to be mis pressed into its casting by about 10 Deg and i had a fine black rubber powder all over the wheel which i thought might been from a failing caliper but no the bush was mangled as it was supplied wrongly pressed into its casting.
This is the bush and arm i replaced last year when i first used my hydraulic press to carefully press the new bush on to a new arm as there is no other way of doing it without modifying ether the bush or the arm both of which as stated where quality oem parts with no flash.

Now i have put oem arms and bushes on both sides of my ZTT using this method as refuse to start modifying oem parts that should arrive in spec. Looking at it another way what would be the outcome if I did shave material off the arm to slip the bush on and next week there is a serious incident requiring crash scene investigation who inspects the car and finds the oem part has been recently modified in such a way by the fitter. If something bad happens now the part supplier/manufacturer might have questions to answer rather than the diy fitter. In short there is liability for the modification of oem parts away from spec.

I am here to challenge the orthodoxy and be laughed at for it as some people can get set in there ways, thats all..
Hi John.
I have in the past posted about how these bushes are pressed into the castings, and how they differ from different makes.

Original bush and arm.
1

2

3

Note how the bushes in these three different makes of bushes, are pressed into the castings, only the Unipart match the originals.

4

5

it's no wonder that they are hard to line up with the subframe after being fitted to the arms.

Unipart
6

Febi.
7

8
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Old 20th April 2022, 06:58   #40
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Hi all.

Watching this with interest having recently struggled with the job - in particular fitting the Bush housing bolts. The bushes were stiff on the new arms and don't "move freely". Next time I will file down the arm if bushes are stiff but what is best tool for this? Hand file? Flap disc? Grinding disc feels too severe for this but look forward to advice. Many thanks!
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