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Old 11th February 2022, 13:46   #121
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Just read today that a pilot scheme is starting that will eventually be rolled out nationally to use smart charges to drain the batteries of EVs when demand on the grid exceeds supply and at peak times. A refund will be paid for the electricity taken similar to solar panels.

So if you put your EV on charge ready for a long trip you may not have enough power to go because they drained it instead of charging it. Then all the cars that now need charging again overloads the system again so they drain them again. Could very easily happen if the infrastructure isn't there, and this looks to me like it will not be, otherwise why need to do it.

Prior to recently getting my new car I looked very hard at what to buy. I ended up with petrol, very very economical and at an affordable price. I wanted to be green, electric would be great plug in hybrid a real possibility but in the end I went petrol. I seriously consider hybrid but the extra cost didn't make sense, the saving on fuel would not cover the extra cost to buy.

Full electric, high cost price making them not affordable for most especially an OAP. Still lets look at the affordable ones, they are green but still very pricey compared to petrol. For:- green or are they, mining lithium, end of life battery scrapping? Against, charging infrastructure. In some areas its almost non existent. On my travels I looked for it and some parts non at all where I go to. Mileage between charges, well the affordable ones are not great so on my motorway trips to my family in the south west would need lots of stops. Friends horror stories of setting off on a planned journey to find charges not working leaving them waiting for the AA to rescue them only to then find the next services the same. AA out again with three vans charging up a queue of stranded EVs. Next trip out to lakes got there OK but couldn't find a charger to get home. Nearly out of power when they did. The now use this car in the city only and got a second hand deisel for long trips sort of puts me off.

Then we have the recommendations of how to attain the long life stated by some posts. Well do not use fast charges unless you have to, these will shorten the life. Do not drive fast or use the acceleration offered by these cars too often it reduces the life also and by a fair bit from what I read. Recharge when the battery is between 40% and 60% ie 50% and charge it up to 80% even on your home charger to maintain the life. So a 200 mile range is really only about 80 miles if you want the battery to last. All of the above heats up the batteries and shortens there life.

Mind made up new electric out of the window.

What about second hand? well with the information I found no chance. The cars probably been company owned, charged up all the time on fast chargers, driven at high speeds up and down the motorway, the acceleration used to good effect and charged from 10% to 80% on a fast charge or 100% at home, so battery life questionable on a 3/5 year old one. Just yesterday I saw a Leaf for sale, 10 years old, firm £4200 wanted only 50 mile range left. Advertised as good for short commutes or shopping trips, cheap to charge. Or really batteries too expensive to replace and cost to much to scrap.
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Old 11th February 2022, 14:30   #122
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Originally Posted by RobSun View Post
Just read today that a pilot scheme is starting that will eventually be rolled out nationally to use smart charges to drain the batteries of EVs when demand on the grid exceeds supply and at peak times. A refund will be paid for the electricity taken similar to solar panels.

So if you put your EV on charge ready for a long trip you may not have enough power to go because they drained it instead of charging it. Then all the cars that now need charging again overloads the system again so they drain them again. Could very easily happen if the infrastructure isn't there, and this looks to me like it will not be, otherwise why need to do it.

Prior to recently getting my new car I looked very hard at what to buy. I ended up with petrol, very very economical and at an affordable price. I wanted to be green, electric would be great plug in hybrid a real possibility but in the end I went petrol. I seriously consider hybrid but the extra cost didn't make sense, the saving on fuel would not cover the extra cost to buy.

Full electric, high cost price making them not affordable for most especially an OAP. Still lets look at the affordable ones, they are green but still very pricey compared to petrol. For:- green or are they, mining lithium, end of life battery scrapping? Against, charging infrastructure. In some areas its almost non existent. On my travels I looked for it and some parts non at all where I go to. Mileage between charges, well the affordable ones are not great so on my motorway trips to my family in the south west would need lots of stops. Friends horror stories of setting off on a planned journey to find charges not working leaving them waiting for the AA to rescue them only to then find the next services the same. AA out again with three vans charging up a queue of stranded EVs. Next trip out to lakes got there OK but couldn't find a charger to get home. Nearly out of power when they did. The now use this car in the city only and got a second hand deisel for long trips sort of puts me off.

Then we have the recommendations of how to attain the long life stated by some posts. Well do not use fast charges unless you have to, these will shorten the life. Do not drive fast or use the acceleration offered by these cars too often it reduces the life also and by a fair bit from what I read. Recharge when the battery is between 40% and 60% ie 50% and charge it up to 80% even on your home charger to maintain the life. So a 200 mile range is really only about 80 miles if you want the battery to last. All of the above heats up the batteries and shortens there life.

Mind made up new electric out of the window.

What about second hand? well with the information I found no chance. The cars probably been company owned, charged up all the time on fast chargers, driven at high speeds up and down the motorway, the acceleration used to good effect and charged from 10% to 80% on a fast charge or 100% at home, so battery life questionable on a 3/5 year old one. Just yesterday I saw a Leaf for sale, 10 years old, firm £4200 wanted only 50 mile range left. Advertised as good for short commutes or shopping trips, cheap to charge. Or really batteries too expensive to replace and cost to much to scrap.



Yeah I was reading that they want more EV's equipped with V2G (vehicle to grid) technology as January 2022 saw 1 in 3 new car registrations were either BEV or PHEV & set to grow exponentially this year.
You can opt out of V2G whilst charging if you need the full charge. The national Grid will have (X) amount of GWH's on tap to balance out the grid at peak times, Off peak charging will come with small rewards if it suits your needs.



OLEV would only install these Smart Chargers that were capable of doing that but that £350 grant is ending 31st March.



The UK is signed up to Net Zero & one of the mandates of that policy is the UK has to build 143000 public e-chargers per year through to 2030, They are nowhere near that number as of yet & just above Germany's efforts, Germany are mandated to build 2000 public e-chargers per week through to 2030, at present they managing 250/week ,



Cleevely EV's are now refurbishing BEV traction packs at a fraction of the cost at a Nissan dealership, The majority of low range problems come from just one bad module in the pack which will bring the overall range of the traction pack down to that bad module. The Leaf in this video is a taxi with just under 120K miles which was fast charged four times/day & had a faulty module replaced & is now back to normal.



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Old 11th February 2022, 16:18   #123
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Another aspect on this is the home charger. [BTW, I appreciate not everyone has a drive to put their car on to do a charge, which is another issue in itself.....!]

My neighbour is wanting to change his 8 year old Volvo V40. He is looking for an electric equivalent and we chatted about it. I then asked about a home charger which he hadn't thought about but thought great idea... Anyway, he did some checks to see if the house supply is OK to order one and get one fitted, but there appear to be problems with the supply and a big delay in getting anything fitted. As he's wanting to do some house alterations soon which is likely to affect charger installation, I think he's sticking with the Volvo for the time being. He also does a more than 100 mile trip each way at least once a month....will also advise him of the "away from home" charging problems when I next see him....
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Old 11th February 2022, 19:36   #124
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If it is true that V2G is going/is in operation, then all I can say is good. I don’t see why my lights should go out for you to charge your electric abomination. Read what those in the know think the maximum saturation of EVs will be. 50% will be the maximum, down to 25%. As I have already said before, E.Vs will never fully replace ICE cars.
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Old 11th February 2022, 20:41   #125
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Originally Posted by bl52krz View Post
If it is true that V2G is going/is in operation, then all I can say is good. I don’t see why my lights should go out for you to charge your electric abomination. Read what those in the know think the maximum saturation of EVs will be. 50% will be the maximum, down to 25%. As I have already said before, E.Vs will never fully replace ICE cars.



Gawd n Bennett I don't know where you guys get your outdated facts from but my "abomination" & Me & your house lights will be just fine.


From Graeme Cooper the head honcho at the National Grid. "the most demand for electricity we’ve had in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, due to improved energy efficiency such as the installation of solar panels, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16 per cent. Even if the impossible happened and we all switched to EVs overnight, we think demand would only increase by around 10 per cent. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation." https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories...ehicles-busted
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Old 11th February 2022, 21:23   #126
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Originally Posted by bl52krz View Post
If it is true that V2G is going/is in operation, then all I can say is good. I don’t see why my lights should go out for you to charge your electric abomination. Read what those in the know think the maximum saturation of EVs will be. 50% will be the maximum, down to 25%. As I have already said before, E.Vs will never fully replace ICE cars.



It's a hard one to call for the length of time to the tipping point between ICE cars & BEV's but the powers that be want to speed up that equation. The ETS (emission trading system) i'e. carbon pricing is at record levels & if it was linked to the road transport & buildings ETS it would put 80p/gallon on petrol & diesel right now. The SMMT said new car registrations for January 2022 were 1 in 3 new car registrations were electrified & set to grow exponentially this year.




The UK has it's own ETS since the 'B' word but is still intertwined with the EU ETS standards & underpins all these emission standards. In fact the UK's ETS is more strict than the EU's



The 'Fit for 55' policy (have a look up on that it doesn't make for good reading) has gone back to the drawing board to be amended regards the road transport & buildings ETS from 2026.
It just depends on how much you're willing to pay for a gallon of petrol or diesel in the coming years. I've been reading/following this stuff since 2015 as the disruption is going to be huge.



"As part of its Fit for 55 proposals, the European Commission has proposed including the road transport and buildings sectors into the bloc’s carbon market from 2026 (known as the Emissions Trading System “ETS2”). Fuel suppliers like Total and Shell would need to buy pollution permits for each litre of fuel they put on the market. As the market is currently designed, they could then pass this cost on entirely to end-consumers. This could disproportionately impact poorer citizens driving their cars or heating their homes."

"Carbon pricing for road transport and buildings is necessary to ensure the EU meets its 2030 climate targets, as it will reduce the demand for fossil fuels and private cars[1]. But the burden shouldn’t only fall upon the consumer." https://www.transportenvironment.org...nalysis-shows/
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Last edited by Lancpudn; 12th February 2022 at 12:01.. Reason: changed the value from litre to gallon
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Old 12th February 2022, 09:00   #127
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Originally Posted by RobSun View Post
Just read today that a pilot scheme is starting that will eventually be rolled out nationally to use smart charges to drain the batteries of EVs when demand on the grid exceeds supply and at peak times. A refund will be paid for the electricity taken similar to solar panels.

So if you put your EV on charge ready for a long trip you may not have enough power to go because they drained it instead of charging it. Then all the cars that now need charging again overloads the system again so they drain them again. Could very easily happen if the infrastructure isn't there, and this looks to me like it will not be, otherwise why need to do it.

Prior to recently getting my new car I looked very hard at what to buy. I ended up with petrol, very very economical and at an affordable price. I wanted to be green, electric would be great plug in hybrid a real possibility but in the end I went petrol. I seriously consider hybrid but the extra cost didn't make sense, the saving on fuel would not cover the extra cost to buy.

Full electric, high cost price making them not affordable for most especially an OAP. Still lets look at the affordable ones, they are green but still very pricey compared to petrol. For:- green or are they, mining lithium, end of life battery scrapping? Against, charging infrastructure. In some areas its almost non existent. On my travels I looked for it and some parts non at all where I go to. Mileage between charges, well the affordable ones are not great so on my motorway trips to my family in the south west would need lots of stops. Friends horror stories of setting off on a planned journey to find charges not working leaving them waiting for the AA to rescue them only to then find the next services the same. AA out again with three vans charging up a queue of stranded EVs. Next trip out to lakes got there OK but couldn't find a charger to get home. Nearly out of power when they did. The now use this car in the city only and got a second hand deisel for long trips sort of puts me off.

Then we have the recommendations of how to attain the long life stated by some posts. Well do not use fast charges unless you have to, these will shorten the life. Do not drive fast or use the acceleration offered by these cars too often it reduces the life also and by a fair bit from what I read. Recharge when the battery is between 40% and 60% ie 50% and charge it up to 80% even on your home charger to maintain the life. So a 200 mile range is really only about 80 miles if you want the battery to last. All of the above heats up the batteries and shortens there life.

Mind made up new electric out of the window.

What about second hand? well with the information I found no chance. The cars probably been company owned, charged up all the time on fast chargers, driven at high speeds up and down the motorway, the acceleration used to good effect and charged from 10% to 80% on a fast charge or 100% at home, so battery life questionable on a 3/5 year old one. Just yesterday I saw a Leaf for sale, 10 years old, firm £4200 wanted only 50 mile range left. Advertised as good for short commutes or shopping trips, cheap to charge. Or really batteries too expensive to replace and cost to much to scrap.
Most of the comments about use profile vs range apply also to ICE vehicles. At 55MPH most cars achieve around 20% greater range than at 70MPH.

As has been stated a number of times on this forum, an EV may not suit everyone's desired needs or lifestyle as they are now. But most people recognise that in order to become environmentally friendly we all need to rethink our lifestyles. Perhaps EV adoption will be the catalyst for that.

As for OAPs being impacted by the performance or range restrictions, I would have thought that most OAPs don't need anything other than an electrified Honda Jazz which can be charged between episodes of Coronation Street or Call the Midwife!
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Old 12th February 2022, 14:53   #128
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Most of the comments about use profile vs range apply also to ICE vehicles. At 55MPH most cars achieve around 20% greater range than at 70MPH.

As has been stated a number of times on this forum, an EV may not suit everyone's desired needs or lifestyle as they are now. But most people recognise that in order to become environmentally friendly we all need to rethink our lifestyles. Perhaps EV adoption will be the catalyst for that.

As for OAPs being impacted by the performance or range restrictions, I would have thought that most OAPs don't need anything other than an electrified Honda Jazz which can be charged between episodes of Coronation Street or Call the Midwife!
Point one raised by you. I was not talking about how far you can travel on a charge related to speed but the fact that speed and high acceleration relates to heat generated in the battery which reduces its overall life i.e. fries it, which is well known. Most new owners will not be bothered about these facts, unless you are looking to long term ownership. But buy one second hand and they may well come to be the hidden problems that hits you hard financially. It may well reduce the life span of an EV making a second hand purchase not cost effective at all. On this we will have to wait and see, for me though today to great a risk.

I entirely agree with your second comment but my point is that they are now for most people, who unlike you are of more modest means, not affordable and impractical due to infrastructure however much, like myself, they would like to own one for all of the correct reasons.

Your third point probably sums you up lumping all types, sexes etc. under the same banner. OAPs do have a life you know, I'll bet a fair few members on here fit that bill and have enough health and wealth to live it. My friends who I quoted their experiences of finding enough working and or available charges to reach their destinations are OAPs.

A journalist I know was covering the COPEC talks in Glasgow so hired an electric car to get there thinking he would do his bit for the environment. He had the same issues and said it was far more stressful getting there due to finding it difficult to charge on route. Another friend went from Lancashire to the Classic Car Show in Birmingham planning his route to get there and half way back before needing to charge. Then he ran into problems as the others had and found no available charges.

Sorry but these peoples experiences helped put me off and to decide against electric for now. The majority of private vehicle buyers today can only afford second hand or modestly priced new. Most electric vehicles are priced well above the affordability level for the masses and massive improvements in infrastructure and reductions in costs need to be made before the uptake required will be met. Hopefully we will see all of this happen sooner than later but I will not hold my breath.

My clean green as I can afford petrol vehicle which has all the up to date kit, including the new EU speed limiter which is permanently switched off, giving me 56 MPG at motorway speeds and 45 MPG in every day driving will have to be the best I can do, well for now anyway. I think that the long term will see a reduction in private ownership with vehicles being supplied when needed by car share groups on an hourly/daily basis.
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Old 12th February 2022, 17:05   #129
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Point one raised by you. I was not talking about how far you can travel on a charge related to speed but the fact that speed and high acceleration relates to heat generated in the battery which reduces its overall life i.e. fries it, which is well known. Most new owners will not be bothered about these facts, unless you are looking to long term ownership. But buy one second hand and they may well come to be the hidden problems that hits you hard financially. It may well reduce the life span of an EV making a second hand purchase not cost effective at all. On this we will have to wait and see, for me though today to great a risk.

I entirely agree with your second comment but my point is that they are now for most people, who unlike you are of more modest means, not affordable and impractical due to infrastructure however much, like myself, they would like to own one for all of the correct reasons.

Your third point probably sums you up lumping all types, sexes etc. under the same banner. OAPs do have a life you know, I'll bet a fair few members on here fit that bill and have enough health and wealth to live it. My friends who I quoted their experiences of finding enough working and or available charges to reach their destinations are OAPs.

A journalist I know was covering the COPEC talks in Glasgow so hired an electric car to get there thinking he would do his bit for the environment. He had the same issues and said it was far more stressful getting there due to finding it difficult to charge on route. Another friend went from Lancashire to the Classic Car Show in Birmingham planning his route to get there and half way back before needing to charge. Then he ran into problems as the others had and found no available charges.

Sorry but these peoples experiences helped put me off and to decide against electric for now. The majority of private vehicle buyers today can only afford second hand or modestly priced new. Most electric vehicles are priced well above the affordability level for the masses and massive improvements in infrastructure and reductions in costs need to be made before the uptake required will be met. Hopefully we will see all of this happen sooner than later but I will not hold my breath.

My clean green as I can afford petrol vehicle which has all the up to date kit, including the new EU speed limiter which is permanently switched off, giving me 56 MPG at motorway speeds and 45 MPG in every day driving will have to be the best I can do, well for now anyway. I think that the long term will see a reduction in private ownership with vehicles being supplied when needed by car share groups on an hourly/daily basis.



You can get an App & OBD2 dongle to check an EV's charging/balancing history & exactly how many L1/L2 & fast charging sessions the cars had & everything else in between, I got the Nissan Leaf Spy Pro years ago as I thinking of getting one, It never came about but they are an handy tool to check exactly the cars history & battery health, If it's had 'X' amount of hundreds or thousands of fast charges in it's life you might want to walk away from the deal or use the data to bargain with.

Just scroll through the images on this Google play app.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...hl=en_US&gl=US
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Old 12th February 2022, 17:56   #130
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Reduce the worlds air pollution a great idea.


It will only work if all the world takes part.


As it is, those that are taking it seriously are only doing something in the wind, when you compare what many large countries and continents aren't doing.
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