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Old 21st November 2021, 21:54   #111
another_clean_sheet
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...you mean lots of cases in the younger age group, which has a lower vaccination rate? Thank you, case closed!

And more useful than the question you posed would be to ask what proportion of hospital cases is vaccinated versus unvaccinated. In a broad sense, the total number of cases is almost irrelevant as long as only a tiny fraction of those infected end up in hospital.
According to a nurse I know 90% of her patients in ICU have not been vaccinated.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 07:49   #112
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A very common misconception. True in some cases, but most dentists that have left the NHS have done so over concerns of maintaining quality of care. You just can't see 50 patients/day for long without either burning out or dropping standards. Over the last 20 years we've lost good nurses to the NHS where their conditions of employment are so much better we just can't compete!
If I take out a difficult wisdom tooth and bill £200, it's regarded as expensive. It is 'free' to the patient if they can access the service on the NHS, so the private dentist is seen as taking advantage. The true cost to the public purse which funds the NHS is around twice that figure, but it's buried in the massive accounts of the system. I try to get all my patients NHS care when I can, since it's a no brainer from their point of view. Unfortunately, the NHS is oversubscribed so they have introduced road blocks like the IOTN (index of treatment need) which can lead to a refusal of treatment. But again, if I step in to do the refused orthodontic work, I have to charge minimum of £2k which is a lot for a young family to find and there is again the old chestnut of greedy private dentist making a killing. My pension will be very considerably below those of my NHS colleagues, most of whom retire at 65 with excellent pensions. I'm now 70 and still working. I'll probably still be working if fit enough at 75. Can't afford to retire lol. Fortunately for myself, I still get job satisfaction providing quality dentisty to my patients. Bit off topic, but I had to respond
I think you will have a hard time convincing people that private dental care does not yield more money for the dentists then NHS dental care. In fact your post seems to support this. You say "You just can't see 50 patients/day for long without either burning out or dropping standards. " So by going private how do you keep the same income if you are seeing less patients? We cannot get an NHS dentist but we can get a private one, in fact private ones are "two a penny", how come they have space for private patients but not NHS. I'm a sceptic, make me a believer.
Can you tell us what the NHS pays for a check up, filling, tooth removal? Does the cost change depending on tooth and filling?

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Old 22nd November 2021, 09:47   #113
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I think you will have a hard time convincing people that private dental care does not yield more money for the dentists then NHS dental care. In fact your post seems to support this. You say "You just can't see 50 patients/day for long without either burning out or dropping standards. " So by going private how do you keep the same income if you are seeing less patients? We cannot get an NHS dentist but we can get a private one, in fact private ones are "two a penny", how come they have space for private patients but not NHS. I'm a sceptic, make me a believer.
Can you tell us what the NHS pays for a check up, filling, tooth removal? Does the cost change depending on tooth and filling?

macafee2
I think you're missing the point. It's not just about raw pay, it's about the whole deal, crucially pension. And the point about being able to find a private dentist but not an NHS one simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny - the same is true across a wide range of society, such as housing, education, policing, and all sorts of other things.

Let's hope Edward will reply shortly to check I have understood properly!
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Old 22nd November 2021, 10:51   #114
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mmm it is the law, it must be obeyed? Does that apply to unjust laws? I offer you Alan Turing who was prosecuted for homosexuality. No way would that happen now. Was it a just law at the time?

What do the patients gain by carers being double jabbed?
What benefit does bringing this to law give patients?

macafee2

Right or wrong, the law is the law and we elect the law makers to protect the majority of us.


The carers are less likely to get covid, yet if do - they are much less likely to be seriously ill as a result and with a much reduced chance of dying if they are seriously ill.



The benefit to the patient is that a carer is much less likely to have covid and less likely to pass it on if they do have it.



To suggest it might not have been properly tested and there might be major repercussions down the line, is ridiculous, the tests were as scrupulous for the jab, as any other jab, except the tests were fast tracked and in parallel. Much more money was poured into it than normal, because the need was so urgent, so desperate.



Yes there are suggested to have been one or two deaths attributed to the jab, but that has to be balanced against the number who were dying prior to the jab being available, the lockdowns and the numbers who would have died without the vaccine.



Chances of being seriously ill or dying without the jab are high, chances of dying or being seriously ill with the jab considerably less, chances of dying as a result of the jab itself infinitesimal. Therefore no contest.



Its win all round, for everyone.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 11:46   #115
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Interesting stat from the Office of National Statistics covering the period Jan to Sept 2021. They show that the mortality rate for unvaccinated with Covid 19 was 849.7 per 100,000 compared with 26.2 per 100,000 for those that were fully vaccinated.
Now one could argue about the absolute figures but that it is a ration of 32 to 1.
No wonder countries in Europe where they have a higher % of unvaccinated are thinking of going into lockdown again.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 13:11   #116
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Originally Posted by Torqueofthedevil View Post
I think you're missing the point. It's not just about raw pay, it's about the whole deal, crucially pension. And the point about being able to find a private dentist but not an NHS one simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny - the same is true across a wide range of society, such as housing, education, policing, and all sorts of other things.

Let's hope Edward will reply shortly to check I have understood properly!
Absolutely correct. Whenever the press ran an article on dentists' pay it was always negative. Many years ago I had patients who believed a press article that dentists were on £200k salaries. The useless scribes had confused EBITDA with net income. I knew a garage owner in Aboyne back in 1980 whose gross was £250k from petrol. He needed a new petrol pump, and decided it made more sense for him to stop serving petrol since his margins were too thin to justify buying a new pump. My NHS pension will be about £500/year because I abandoned the NHS in 1980 to go and work for Shell Expro in Aberdeen. I was told , we want you to do good dentistry (amongst other useful requirements for them). I found that working hard but properly, the NHS income we claimed was 1/3 of what was needed for me to earn £17k, which was a good salary then, and that Shell made up the difference while providing premises, staff, materials and repairs. Fast forwards to today, and dentists make the NHS contract work by working fast...and I mean fast.
Those who manage get to 65, most run for the hills, since they get a very nice pension and are burned out. I could go on, but not sure if it's appropriate in this thread?
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Old 23rd November 2021, 15:01   #117
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Interesting stat from the Office of National Statistics covering the period Jan to Sept 2021. They show that the mortality rate for unvaccinated with Covid 19 was 849.7 per 100,000 compared with 26.2 per 100,000 for those that were fully vaccinated.
Now one could argue about the absolute figures but that it is a ration of 32 to 1.
No wonder countries in Europe where they have a higher % of unvaccinated are thinking of going into lockdown again.
That's a nice stat, manipulated of course because the vaccine roll out really only started about end of December/January, the vaccines were initially given to high risk groups until they filtered down through the age groups. The point is that between the dates mentioned there would have been millions not even offered the vaccines and falling ill with covid. It would be interesting to see the breakdown of ages and actual dates of death, I'll bet most of them were way before September when most people had the vaccines. It's just more trickery to convince the doubters but there are lies, damned lies and statistics.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 15:10   #118
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That's a nice stat, manipulated of course because the vaccine roll out really only started about end of December/January, the vaccines were initially given to high risk groups until they filtered down through the age groups. The point is that between the dates mentioned there would have been millions not even offered the vaccines and falling ill with covid. It would be interesting to see the breakdown of ages and actual dates of death, I'll bet most of them were way before September when most people had the vaccines. It's just more trickery to convince the doubters but there are lies, damned lies and statistics.

You have completely missed the point that the vacinne is preventing deaths. If you had the jab you were 32 times less likely to get Covid.
It does not matter that the population at the beginning of the year which had had the jab was not that large. You are comparing 100,000 who had had the jab with a 100000 who had not. Simple statistics

Not everything in the world is a conspiracy just because it does not agree with your thinking.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 15:28   #119
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Firstly I never said I was immune to the virus, I simply stated that I don't need the vaccines now having had the virus. I now have T cell immunity and the vaccines will do nothing for that immunity, it would falsely raise the antibodies for a few short weeks but that's not worth any risk from the jabs, no matter how small that risk. Is it not a fact that the UK must act on its own data figures no matter what the rest of the world is doing with theirs and so, the real data will not be given to the public because of the need to keep jabbing, they won't recognise natural immunity in public bit privately they have, how do I know? I took the antibody test and got an email confirming it, I also went to donate blood plasma, because my natural immunity state was a way for them to trial vaccines from my blood and others. I look on from my lofty position at those getting the jabs and genuinely worry about their long term health, no-one has a clue how it's going to turn out. The governments of the world are pleading with the unvaccinated to get a jab, even if they've had the virus, at the same time they're pleading with the people that have had two jabs to get a third because quite simply, the vaccines are not working. In the new year towards Spring the fourth jabs will be rolled out, how many will be enough to make people wary of the intent by governments to control the lives of the people by the way they're behaving.
Thanks for the explanation Saga. As for the UK govt pointer I think I hinted that all world agencies were collecting data but did not infer Uk govt was acting on that data.

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Old 23rd November 2021, 16:59   #120
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This article would seem to confirm the efficacy of the "so-called vaccine" in warding off the most serious symptoms.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ford-scientist
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