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Old 20th November 2021, 16:42   #101
Saga Lout
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Not the same thing at all and not comparable. Would you equally welcoming of a leper, or someone with a similar disease into your home? Of course not and that would not be discrimination.



Would you expect free entry to a nightclub, because you are broke? What about a members only club, where you are not a member?



It is a matter of common sense and protecting oneself and those around you, nothing at all to do with discrimination against any religion, creed or colour of a person.


There are numerous places you cannot enter, because you do not qualify for entry - that is not any form of discrimination, you simply do not qualify. Qualify for entry and you can then get in.


Get the jab and you qualify, don't you don't get in - that simple.
You're missing the point, the jabs are personal choice and mandates are not the law, the way the government is getting around personal choice is restricting freedoms of the ones who haven't got jabbed. It is clear discrimination and in breach of sections of the human rights legislation that we are still a part of. If I choose not to be jabbed, that does not give anyone the right to discriminate against that choice, an unlawful mandate will just divide the people into groups as it is doing, the government want the jabbed to turn against those without to try to force compliance with what they want, they have turned people into idiots that believe the vaccines will make them immune, and that every non jabbed person is loaded with the virus. The risk to everyone is exactly the same now as a year ago, the vaccines have proved to be almost worthless.
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Old 20th November 2021, 18:00   #102
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The difference of course being, that NHS staff are not so well paid as in the private sector, made up for in part, by being paid when off work.
A very common misconception. True in some cases, but most dentists that have left the NHS have done so over concerns of maintaining quality of care. You just can't see 50 patients/day for long without either burning out or dropping standards. Over the last 20 years we've lost good nurses to the NHS where their conditions of employment are so much better we just can't compete!
If I take out a difficult wisdom tooth and bill £200, it's regarded as expensive. It is 'free' to the patient if they can access the service on the NHS, so the private dentist is seen as taking advantage. The true cost to the public purse which funds the NHS is around twice that figure, but it's buried in the massive accounts of the system. I try to get all my patients NHS care when I can, since it's a no brainer from their point of view. Unfortunately, the NHS is oversubscribed so they have introduced road blocks like the IOTN (index of treatment need) which can lead to a refusal of treatment. But again, if I step in to do the refused orthodontic work, I have to charge minimum of £2k which is a lot for a young family to find and there is again the old chestnut of greedy private dentist making a killing. My pension will be very considerably below those of my NHS colleagues, most of whom retire at 65 with excellent pensions. I'm now 70 and still working. I'll probably still be working if fit enough at 75. Can't afford to retire lol. Fortunately for myself, I still get job satisfaction providing quality dentisty to my patients. Bit off topic, but I had to respond
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Old 20th November 2021, 18:14   #103
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Martin, you have painted to a totally different picture of dentists to common perception, including that held by myself.

Dentists now off the list for post-revolution treatment!
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Old 20th November 2021, 19:48   #104
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the government want the jabbed to turn against those without to try to force compliance with what they want, they have turned people into idiots that believe the vaccines will make them immune, and that every non jabbed person is loaded with the virus. The risk to everyone is exactly the same now as a year ago, the vaccines have proved to be almost worthless.
That's simply not true. This time last year we were entering a second mini-lockdown, which was followed very shortly afterwards by a third more stringent lockdown. While there may yet be a further lockdown, we are entering this winter in much better circumstances than the previous one. Infection rates are still high, but hospitalizations are massively reduced...if the vaccines are almost worthless, how do you explain such a significant improvement in the situation?

And as for the government turning people into idiots, I'm pretty sure that there were plenty of numpties around before the pandemic!
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Old 20th November 2021, 20:37   #105
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That's simply not true. This time last year we were entering a second mini-lockdown, which was followed very shortly afterwards by a third more stringent lockdown. While there may yet be a further lockdown, we are entering this winter in much better circumstances than the previous one. Infection rates are still high, but hospitalizations are massively reduced...if the vaccines are almost worthless, how do you explain such a significant improvement in the situation?

And as for the government turning people into idiots, I'm pretty sure that there were plenty of numpties around before the pandemic!
Many hundreds of thousands more have now had the virus, look at the figures of weekly cases of declared infections in the last year, don't count the people who didn't test. The fact is that once infected and recovered, you'll be mostly immune from a new infection, the latest infections are from school age people to their parents and that's tailing off. There isn't a comparison between this year and last year, I don't doubt that the vaccines have helped some people but it's not as many as was hoped, that's why the third jab is now needed `to save Christmas` The vaccines work for some but are really quite poor at stopping much of the virus.
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Old 20th November 2021, 21:11   #106
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The risk to everyone is exactly the same now as a year ago, the vaccines have proved to be almost worthless.

You are of course very wrong, we are in a very much better position now, than when the panic was on to find suitable vaccines. The stats and graphs make it abundantly clear that the initial lockdowns worked, then later the the rollout of the vaccines.



The hospital admission stats, showing how few covid admissions are made of people who have had the jabs, further confirm how effective it is. Deaths from covid are also down where people have had the jab.



How much more do you need to convince you that it works and is effective?


It is those who have stepped up to have the jab, who have done their bit in preventing the spread and many more longer lockdowns.



It is so effective and the risk from the vaccine so miniscule, that for the good of everyone, I firmly believe the UK ought to make it compulsory, unless an individual has a valid reason not to have it. If people continue to read and believe all the conspiracy theories, plus claiming rights of the individual, then it seems that may well happen as happened in Austria last week. After all, what about the rights of that much larger group of individuals who did the sensible thing and voluntarily had the jab?
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Old 20th November 2021, 21:23   #107
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Many hundreds of thousands more have now had the virus, look at the figures of weekly cases of declared infections in the last year, don't count the people who didn't test. The fact is that once infected and recovered, you'll be mostly immune from a new infection, the latest infections are from school age people to their parents and that's tailing off. There isn't a comparison between this year and last year, I don't doubt that the vaccines have helped some people but it's not as many as was hoped, that's why the third jab is now needed `to save Christmas` The vaccines work for some but are really quite poor at stopping much of the virus.
Unfortunately you have defeated your own argument! As you say, those who have already had the virus are unlikely to get it again, so natural immunity isn't reducing the current number of infections. Yet very few of those current cases are going to hospital, and the chief reason for the difference between health outcomes for people contracting Covid in November 2021 compared to November 2020 is the vaccine rollout. As I have already acknowledged, the growth of natural immunity is helping the overall situation - but does nothing to explain the reduced hospitalization rates for those who do become infected.
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Old 20th November 2021, 22:37   #108
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Martin, you have painted to a totally different picture of dentists to common perception, including that held by myself.

Dentists now off the list for post-revolution treatment!
Much appreciated to be off that list Maninder
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Old 21st November 2021, 19:57   #109
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Unfortunately you have defeated your own argument! As you say, those who have already had the virus are unlikely to get it again, so natural immunity isn't reducing the current number of infections. Yet very few of those current cases are going to hospital, and the chief reason for the difference between health outcomes for people contracting Covid in November 2021 compared to November 2020 is the vaccine rollout. As I have already acknowledged, the growth of natural immunity is helping the overall situation - but does nothing to explain the reduced hospitalization rates for those who do become infected.
I don't agree, the number of cases now is in the younger age group, much less likely to go into hospital as is already known. There are of course people that have been protected by the so called vaccines but, it's not the answer that any government wants. Let's take it to another stage, if there are 40,000 cases each day, how many are vaccinated and how many are not?
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Old 21st November 2021, 21:35   #110
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I don't agree, the number of cases now is in the younger age group, much less likely to go into hospital as is already known. There are of course people that have been protected by the so called vaccines but, it's not the answer that any government wants. Let's take it to another stage, if there are 40,000 cases each day, how many are vaccinated and how many are not?
...you mean lots of cases in the younger age group, which has a lower vaccination rate? Thank you, case closed!

And more useful than the question you posed would be to ask what proportion of hospital cases is vaccinated versus unvaccinated. In a broad sense, the total number of cases is almost irrelevant as long as only a tiny fraction of those infected end up in hospital.
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