Investigative Report: Affairs of MG Rover Group & Phoenix Venture Holdings etc

[grivas]

Originally Posted by mss

Sadly, this report (which I have read before) highlights the main failing in our system - we employ highly paid people to investigate failure after the event and apportion blame.

The Department of Bsiness Innovation and Skills should have been advising MGR management from the time that it was acquired from BMW. It should have been lobbying government departments for financial and other support e.g. working with creditors and suppliers' insurers to continue supporting the business.

We are just about the best in the world at setting up public enquiries and publishing volume upon volume of meaningless garbage that point the finger and blame, what we are terrible at is learning anything useful these very expensive exercise only to have the whole thing repeated sooner or latter at huge cost to the public purse.

[minimutly]

I have for a number of years now been amazed at the number of school leavers going to uni to do "busines studies", and then equally amazed how badly run the corporate and management affairs of the country and big business is run. Succsesive governments, started by Maggie, helped by Tony Blair and his chinless pal have really done serious harm to this country and its interests - for Rover Group read HMS GB

[grivas]

Originally Posted by topman

I don't think there's a huge amount to be learned from digging up this. Many have entrenched views on the subject, regardless of how many reports are created. Me, i think even if the Phoenix group had all worked for free it wouldn't have changed how and what happened, it'd pushed it back yes but not in any meaningful way. The company would have still gone under, the rot had set in long ago.
As to the government, well they were worried about pouring good money on after. They were in a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.

Attitudes of this kind is why we find ourselves in this present situation. The collaboration with Honda was not only fruitful but had paved the way to what was then hailed as a revival of quality car manufacturing in GB, the amount of effort invested by the Rover Group was finally paying dividends as the brand was starting to attract a loyal following again despite of the efforts of most of the morons in the British motoring Press to criticize the Co at every opportunity, these so called experts had a considerable negative effect often forgotten about.

The sale of Rover Group to BMW by the then Government of the day was a classic monumental and moronic mistake, for which the minister responsible, should have been held to account. This was partly to help finance the failing British Aerospace industry.

Now the management of MG Rover as it became known when BMW left, having stripped them of everything important, were let us say in a typically understated British way, not up to the job, some will say they were self-serving and had no interest in saving the group.

In any case the collapse of MG Rovers should be packaged as a part of an undergraduate degree in Economics, and taught at British Universities as an example par excellance as to how to destroy the last large scale manufacturing industry without holding anyone to account.

[topman]

It's not an attitude, it's simply how things are. Phoenix group were small fry in terms of funding, as i mentioned in other posts you really need billions in funding. They were never going to raise sums of that size.
The government didn't sell Rover, British aerospace did, as iirc they were a public listed company not state owned. As for struggling quite the opposite they'd landed some huge contracts in the middle east just a couple of years previously. They sold rover because it wasn't what they did, they wished to focus on aerospace not cars.
I don't believe phoenix couldn't have done anything different, like I said previously the sums of money required were simply too large. So yes they may well have wasted tens of millions but in the car industry that's chicken feed.

[Rikki]

He may be referring to certain actions by PVH some examples I gave earlier in this thread- in that transferring some more profitable areas from MGR to the holding company may not have been in the best interests of MGR group. but were certainly in the interests of PVH and its owners.

While PVH did keep going MGR for quite a while I don't believe they were the white knights some folks seem to think they were.

[Reebs]

Last 2 posts removed. Lets keep politics off the forum.

[Nantwich 75]

Without major investment running into billions of pounds Rover would have gone. Bentley would have gone if they had not become part of VAG.

Car production is hugely expensive and requires huge financial resources to exist.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by Nantwich 75

Without major investment running into billions of pounds Rover would have gone. Bentley would have gone if they had not become part of VAG.

Car production is hugely expensive and requires huge financial resources to exist.

Agreed. Jaguar would have also gone without the huge levels of investment by Tata.

[Rich in Vancouver]

I have fantasised about what would have become of MGR if Tata had picked them up rather than the Chinese, and provided finance and proper management and left production in the UK.
Mind you, I am a Johnny Foreigner and don't know much of the political and financial details of the whole sad affair. (Mind you we have had similar disasters here in Canada)

[biffa75]

I have done a fair amount of reading of documents and books on what happened with mgr. My personal opinion is... Mg still had some connection with the public, unfortunately its reputation in the u.k wasn't the best when compared to the likes of BMW, audi or Merc. Unfortunately rover was a dead brand... As much as we may love our rovers, I think it was. The damage was done and the brand was synonymous with poor build quality and old designs and being plagued with a lack of funds as far as the wider buying public was concerned.

Maybe, if rover had been given a make over from branding to vehicle designs it may have got the interest of the British buying public?.. but then, they wouldn't have been rovers anymore, much like the new mgs aren't mgs..

A good and quick insight into what happened can be seen here

https://youtu.be/E_fDgIqUo3o

Any other UK vehicle manufacturer such as Morgan is more a specialised nich'e market.. not exactly mass production.

Had mg rover been bailed out and perhaps even nationalised, I can't help but wonder what mg rover would be like today.. a booming success turning a profit and employing tens of thousands directly and indirectly... Who knows.. a shame none the less.