My Cooling system - Still not right - what now?

Ps3000 · 24th April 2015, 10:41

My 190 has been giving me grief since February. Here's what's been done so far (just to the cooling system, not the other stuff

)-

New radiator,
New Coolant cap,
New stainless pipes to oil cooler,
New thermostat housing assembly and associated pipes,
New inlet manifold gaskets.
New Gold resistor.

The fan is working at present on both speeds (although I have just e-mailed Jules about a revotec replacement as I suspect it won't last forever).

The symptoms -

Every single time I remove the cap to check the level, I get a "whoosh" as the pressure is released - this happens even if the car's not been used for days.

I am still losing coolant - but it seems intermittent now.
Upon checking today, I appear to have lost some by it being blown out of the cap (no it wasn't overfilled).

The oil on the dipstick is clean (recently changed).

I am a little unsure about the coolant - it seems clean when there's some left, but I thought I could smell oil in it today.

Temp monitored today during a 15 mile trip on OBD ranged between 87-96 once warmed up. It drops into the 80s when setting off from rest, climbs and sits at 90-93 on cruising at 50-60, ranges from 90-96 sitting in traffic.

Not sure what to try next. I think the only remaining possibilities are HGF or the oil cooler. What does the panel think? BTW thanks to everyone for all the excellent help so far.

Doc Evil · 24th April 2015, 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ps3000

My 190 has been giving me grief since February. Here's what's been done so far (just to the cooling system, not the other stuff

)-

New radiator,
New Coolant cap,
New stainless pipes to oil cooler,
New thermostat housing assembly and associated pipes,
New inlet manifold gaskets.
New Gold resistor.

The fan is working at present on both speeds (although I have just e-mailed Jules about a revotec replacement as I suspect it won't last forever).

The symptoms -

Every single time I remove the cap to check the level, I get a "whoosh" as the pressure is released - this happens even if the car's not been used for days.

I am still losing coolant - but it seems intermittent now.
Upon checking today, I appear to have lost some by it being blown out of the cap (no it wasn't overfilled).

The oil on the dipstick is clean (recently changed).

I am a little unsure about the coolant - it seems clean when there's some left, but I thought I could smell oil in it today.

Temp monitored today during a 15 mile trip on OBD ranged between 87-96 once warmed up. It drops into the 80s when setting off from rest, climbs and sits at 90-93 on cruising at 50-60, ranges from 90-96 sitting in traffic.

Not sure what to try next. I think the only remaining possibilities are HGF or the oil cooler. What does the panel think? BTW thanks to everyone for all the excellent help so far.

If it were the oil cooler failed you would have a fine mess in the header tank, I'm afraid to say that it's looking like a hgf I would recommend a compression test and a sniffer test but only after making 100% sure you have bleed the cooling system correctly, they are difficult to bleed correctly and you need to follow the MGR Recommended technique

Do this first before condemning the head gasket/s

Doc

Ps3000 · 24th April 2015, 15:37

Thanks Doc - I don't see it can be the bleeding (pardon my french) as it held water no problems for about a week after I did the inlet manifolds. Water is going somewhere I think....

T-Cut · 24th April 2015, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ps3000

Every single time I remove the cap to check the level, I get a "whoosh" as the pressure is released - this happens even if the car's not been used for days.

IMO that's pretty definitive of HGF. There's no other way the pressure in the cooling system can exceed atmospheric between cold checks.

TC

andrewinpopayan · 24th April 2015, 15:57

Is it a whoosh of air coming out or air going in?

I would first try a Sykes Pickavant type coolant pressure tester on the system, just pump it up to 3-5 PSI and then start the engine and see if the pressure suddenly shoots up. If it does then the next goal is to isolate which cylinder is causing the problem. If you can get your hands on a cylinder leakdown tester for a couple of hours it will narrow your search down onto the defective cylinder, otherwise you have 4 or 6 cylinders to go at and you will needlessly be removing 1 head.

Heres a good video.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofSiTGeLXvc

Can't afford one, no problem, I like this guy... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuLYDy0zkhw

Andrew

Ps3000 · 25th April 2015, 08:56

andrewinpopayan, thanks for that link (the second one) - that guy in the US is really entertaining, and has some good tips. I love the way he doesn't pussyfoot around, too.

andrewinpopayan · 25th April 2015, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ps3000

andrewinpopayan, thanks for that link (the second one) - that guy in the US is really entertaining, and has some good tips. I love the way he doesn't pussyfoot around, too.

I have watched most of his video's now. I like the way he cobbles stuff together, then gives a clear explanation of what he's doing and why.

I cobbled one together a while ago from an ex-pubs Coca-Cola gas & syrup mixer system that I found in a skip.

Salad-Dodger · 25th April 2015, 11:48

Hi. I had a similar thing with a V8 Jaguar where the water was going somewhere and the system was blowing up. In the end I took each plug out in turn and replaced it until I got a spray of water vapour from a cylinder. You have to wait a bit between each test so the water can get to whatever cylinder it is. All the plugs are disconnected so nothing fires up but just make sure you have a good battery to start with. Bit unlucky with a V6 though. They don't usually give head gasket problems unless they have been over-heating. Steve

jn12 · 25th April 2015, 15:52

I would check your oil cooler for a blockage. I have suffered for over two years with similar issues to your self. I decided to get it swapped over with a good second hand one. The old one was blocked and allowed very little flow through if any at all.

Upon changing the cooler the behaviour of the cooling system has transformed. Temps all with in correct specs and I have a 99% improvement in cabin heating

No more forced out coolant via the cap either.

John

Ps3000 · 25th April 2015, 15:55

Mine has been overheating though - I had no slow speed fan and then I had a leaking radiator (although I do wonder if the rad got burst by the pressure in the cooling system). It only actually overheated twice, but that may have been enough I guess.

I may have a go at making one of those leakdown gauges.

I may just keep running it until it blows up properly.

Also wondering if I should get a second engine. Doing the HG will be tricky, esp if it's the rear one (knowing my luck it will be) and there are accounts on here of the real issue being loose or cracked liners, in which case it won't be cured - might be safer to get a known good engine, do the belts on the bench, then just swap 'em over - it hardly looks to be more work.

24th April 2015, 10:41	#1
Ps3000 Gets stuck in None at moment Join Date: May 2013 Location: Loughborough Posts: 899 Thanks: 230 Thanked 125 Times in 113 Posts	My Cooling system - Still not right - what now? My 190 has been giving me grief since February. Here's what's been done so far (just to the cooling system, not the other stuff )- New radiator, New Coolant cap, New stainless pipes to oil cooler, New thermostat housing assembly and associated pipes, New inlet manifold gaskets. New Gold resistor. The fan is working at present on both speeds (although I have just e-mailed Jules about a revotec replacement as I suspect it won't last forever). The symptoms - Every single time I remove the cap to check the level, I get a "whoosh" as the pressure is released - this happens even if the car's not been used for days. I am still losing coolant - but it seems intermittent now. Upon checking today, I appear to have lost some by it being blown out of the cap (no it wasn't overfilled). The oil on the dipstick is clean (recently changed). I am a little unsure about the coolant - it seems clean when there's some left, but I thought I could smell oil in it today. Temp monitored today during a 15 mile trip on OBD ranged between 87-96 once warmed up. It drops into the 80s when setting off from rest, climbs and sits at 90-93 on cruising at 50-60, ranges from 90-96 sitting in traffic. Not sure what to try next. I think the only remaining possibilities are HGF or the oil cooler. What does the panel think? BTW thanks to everyone for all the excellent help so far. Last edited by Ps3000; 24th April 2015 at 10:46..

24th April 2015, 15:57	#5
andrewinpopayan Loves to post Rover 75 CDT manual tourer SE with farkles Join Date: May 2014 Location: Bradford BD12 Posts: 497 Thanks: 148 Thanked 73 Times in 62 Posts	Is it a whoosh of air coming out or air going in? I would first try a Sykes Pickavant type coolant pressure tester on the system, just pump it up to 3-5 PSI and then start the engine and see if the pressure suddenly shoots up. If it does then the next goal is to isolate which cylinder is causing the problem. If you can get your hands on a cylinder leakdown tester for a couple of hours it will narrow your search down onto the defective cylinder, otherwise you have 4 or 6 cylinders to go at and you will needlessly be removing 1 head. Heres a good video.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofSiTGeLXvc Can't afford one, no problem, I like this guy... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuLYDy0zkhw Andrew __________________ 2001 75 2.0 CDT tourer. Bodges and "quick fixes" have a nasty habit of reminding you at the MOST inconvenient AND expensive time that you should have done the job properly in the first place.! Last edited by andrewinpopayan; 24th April 2015 at 18:05..

24th April 2015, 15:37	#3
Ps3000 Gets stuck in None at moment Join Date: May 2013 Location: Loughborough Posts: 899 Thanks: 230 Thanked 125 Times in 113 Posts	Thanks Doc - I don't see it can be the bleeding (pardon my french) as it held water no problems for about a week after I did the inlet manifolds. Water is going somewhere I think....

25th April 2015, 08:56	#6
Ps3000 Gets stuck in None at moment Join Date: May 2013 Location: Loughborough Posts: 899 Thanks: 230 Thanked 125 Times in 113 Posts	andrewinpopayan, thanks for that link (the second one) - that guy in the US is really entertaining, and has some good tips. I love the way he doesn't pussyfoot around, too.

25th April 2015, 11:48	#8
Salad-Dodger Gets stuck in MG ZT-T 190 Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Chatham Posts: 592 Thanks: 34 Thanked 66 Times in 62 Posts	Hi. I had a similar thing with a V8 Jaguar where the water was going somewhere and the system was blowing up. In the end I took each plug out in turn and replaced it until I got a spray of water vapour from a cylinder. You have to wait a bit between each test so the water can get to whatever cylinder it is. All the plugs are disconnected so nothing fires up but just make sure you have a good battery to start with. Bit unlucky with a V6 though. They don't usually give head gasket problems unless they have been over-heating. Steve

25th April 2015, 15:52	#9
jn12 Gets stuck in MG ZT SE 180 V6 Sports Auto Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne Posts: 938 Thanks: 74 Thanked 37 Times in 36 Posts	I would check your oil cooler for a blockage. I have suffered for over two years with similar issues to your self. I decided to get it swapped over with a good second hand one. The old one was blocked and allowed very little flow through if any at all. Upon changing the cooler the behaviour of the cooling system has transformed. Temps all with in correct specs and I have a 99% improvement in cabin heating No more forced out coolant via the cap either. John

25th April 2015, 15:55	#10
Ps3000 Gets stuck in None at moment Join Date: May 2013 Location: Loughborough Posts: 899 Thanks: 230 Thanked 125 Times in 113 Posts	Mine has been overheating though - I had no slow speed fan and then I had a leaking radiator (although I do wonder if the rad got burst by the pressure in the cooling system). It only actually overheated twice, but that may have been enough I guess. I may have a go at making one of those leakdown gauges. I may just keep running it until it blows up properly. Also wondering if I should get a second engine. Doing the HG will be tricky, esp if it's the rear one (knowing my luck it will be) and there are accounts on here of the real issue being loose or cracked liners, in which case it won't be cured - might be safer to get a known good engine, do the belts on the bench, then just swap 'em over - it hardly looks to be more work.