Smart Motorways - Panorama investigation

Darcydog · 26th January 2020, 19:23

Tomorrow BBC1 8:30pm

I have huge reservations about these. I now try to avoid the M3 bits as much as possible.

The pre programme blurb from the BBC states that via a FOI request they have found that on one section of the M25 in the five years prior to conversion to SmartMotorway there were 72 “near misses”.

In the five years after conversion the number of near misses was 1485.

macafee2 · 26th January 2020, 20:03

coupled with the advert for the program was footage of near missis, the drivers were not paying attention.

I'm sure I have seen the dash cam footage to this accident and the driver was paying attention
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNJKzssuJzE

The mini bus broke down in lane 1, the hard shoulder was barrierd off.

The lorry with the dash cam was also travelling in lane 1. The lorry was overtaken by another lorry which then pulled into lane 1. The lead lorry saw the mini bus and moved to lane 2, the lorry with the dash cam which was behind in lane 1 saw the mini bus that much later and could not avoid it.

Loss of life and life changing injuries followed. The lorry driver with the dash cam was cleared of any offence and from what I saw in the dash cam footage, was the right decision.

I cant find the clip on Youtube but as a driving lesson, it should be there

I have set my recorder to record this program

It is hardly surprising there are near missis and accidents due to no "hard shoulder"

macafee2

macafee2 · 26th January 2020, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by macafee2

coupled with the advert for the program was footage of near missis, the drivers were not paying attention.

I'm sure I have seen the dash cam footage to this accident and the driver was paying attention
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNJKzssuJzE

The mini bus broke down in lane 1, the hard shoulder was barrierd off.

The lorry with the dash cam was also travelling in lane 1. The lorry was overtaken by another lorry which then pulled into lane 1. The lead lorry saw the mini bus and moved to lane 2, the lorry with the dash cam which was behind in lane 1 saw the mini bus that much later and could not avoid it.

Loss of life and life changing injuries followed. The lorry driver with the dash cam was cleared of any offence and from what I saw in the dash cam footage, was the right decision.

I cant find the clip on Youtube but as a driving lesson, it should be there

I have set my recorder to record this program

It is hardly surprising there are near missis and accidents due to no "hard shoulder"

macafee2

found it
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-eng...fatal-m4-crash

macafee2

roverbarmy · 26th January 2020, 21:19

Having spent a long period of my life recovering HGVs from motorways, I would say that a hard shoulder is an absolute necessity. Even where there is one, it is a very dangerous place to be. I always parked my HGV recovery truck behind the stranded vehicle with the wheels pointing hard left until all the prep work was done before lifting/recovering. I would then pull around the vehicle to be recovered and attach the lifters or links at the last minute. It's not until you've been directly next to a busy motorway that you get the true sense of danger involved. I've heard of horrendous accidents that are rarely fully reported but folks in "the trade" are fully aware of. Never ever sit in your vehicle waiting to be recovered and when the recovery vehicle does arrive, stay clear until the recoverer has done his/her work. Stay safe folks.

Astraeus · 26th January 2020, 21:59

Very good advice. Anything hitting you at 70mph is going to be catastrophic.
Get out, get on the other side of the barrier where fitted and well away from the road.
Cars can be replaced, people cannot.

coolguy · 26th January 2020, 23:44

Don't know why they are wasting time and resources on an enquiry - I could have told them 5 years ago, when they were postulated that Smart Motorways were lethal. In addition , a motorway cannot be smart - it is an inanimate object! Worse still, nobody has pointed out that modern cars give no warning of suddenly stopping - older ones would cough and splutter, but would carry on for a few miles., thus getting to a safe refuge.

Avoid at all costs.

AndyN01 · 27th January 2020, 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by roverbarmy

...... It's not until you've been directly next to a busy motorway that you get the true sense of danger involved......

Been there, done that. Thankfully only once after a puncture southbound on the "Smart" M1 just after Tibshelf services. There's a "refuge" thingy which I managed to get into with a direct phone line to the traffic controllers.

"..... I've closed off Lane 1..... (Which still leaves 3 live lanes)... Oh, thanks, shame about the line of HGV's in Lane 1 travelling at, I guess, 60 mph then..... which continued for several minutes. At that point I've have removed every single one of their licences and if they lost their jobs - tuff. If you chose to drive through a "Red Cross" that should be the consequence of your choice.

If I hadn't made it to the refuge (or there hadn't been one)........

Probably the most scared I've ever been in a motoring situation and that includes marshalling in the Pit Lane at Silverstone for the World Endurance 6 hours. These were the Le Mans cars - was used as a "sprint" race in prep for the Big Event and long before pit lane speed limits. It was reckoned that Jacky Ickx/Derek Bell etc. were well into 3 figures by the time they got to us. About 4 feet to the side of where we were standing

. We were well protected...... by a white line on the tarmac.

.

There is a bit of a but though.

Aren't we all supposed to be able to STOP in the distance we can see to be clear (on our own side of the road, in the lane we are in etc.)

.

Having said all, that totally agree that in reality it's just a disaster waiting to happen.

Be safe out there.

Andy.

macafee2 · 27th January 2020, 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyN01

Been there, done that. Thankfully only once after a puncture southbound on the "Smart" M1 just after Tibshelf services. There's a "refuge" thingy which I managed to get into with a direct phone line to the traffic controllers.

"..... I've closed off Lane 1..... (Which still leaves 3 live lanes)... Oh, thanks, shame about the line of HGV's in Lane 1 travelling at, I guess, 60 mph then..... which continued for several minutes. At that point I've have removed every single one of their licences and if they lost their jobs - tuff. If you chose to drive through a "Red Cross" that should be the consequence of your choice.

If I hadn't made it to the refuge (or there hadn't been one)........

Probably the most scared I've ever been in a motoring situation and that includes marshalling in the Pit Lane at Silverstone for the World Endurance 6 hours. These were the Le Mans cars - was used as a "sprint" race in prep for the Big Event and long before pit lane speed limits. It was reckoned that Jacky Ickx/Derek Bell etc. were well into 3 figures by the time they got to us. About 4 feet to the side of where we were standing

. We were well protected...... by a white line on the tarmac.

.

There is a bit of a but though.

Aren't we all supposed to be able to STOP in the distance we can see to be clear (on our own side of the road, in the lane we are in etc.)

.

Having said all, that totally agree that in reality it's just a disaster waiting to happen.

Be safe out there.

Andy.

Andy, unfortunately those that control the overhead gantry's also have to take some responsibility for people ignoring the signs. Time and again overhead gantry's are not updated. I would be very scared to stop in a lane with a red cross, I'd look to change lane and keep going and I would seriously have to consider if to keep going at a reduce speed if all lanes showed a red cross but no one was stopping, I would be terrified of being rear ended, I would not be being arrogant, just fearful of my and my passengers safety.
I have seen the red cross on smart motorways over the "hard shoulder" ignored.

Going North or South I cant recall the hard shoulder is often "open" to traffic but at the next junction it is for the exit only then after the exit for all traffic and then for the exit only and so it goes on..... I don't consider this clever but bordering on dangerous as vehicle's are in and out of lanes and for those towing is more of a problem.

smart motorways...... not the best decision but a lot of money has been spent creating them and so doing away with them is probably not an option.

macafee2

grivas · 28th January 2020, 21:26

Who ever thought this insane and utterly moronic idea should have been locked up for plain stupidity until the legal system had time to decide what to actually charge him/her with!!!
Smart motorways? What's smart about them!

Phil th Barrow · 29th January 2020, 11:03

Smart motorways are im guessing th cheapest option to maximise there potential. Th out come is taken into "there account" … Iv driven 31 years commercially so nothing surprises me at all what goes on and witnessed things I wish id never seen. Driving is a very dangerous thing to do indeed.. I feel for th poor families. They suffer th most...

26th January 2020, 19:23	#1
Darcydog This is my second home Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 5,428 Thanks: 3,123 Thanked 3,170 Times in 2,096 Posts	Smart Motorways - Panorama investigation Tomorrow BBC1 8:30pm I have huge reservations about these. I now try to avoid the M3 bits as much as possible. The pre programme blurb from the BBC states that via a FOI request they have found that on one section of the M25 in the five years prior to conversion to SmartMotorway there were 72 “near misses”. In the five years after conversion the number of near misses was 1485.

26th January 2020, 20:03	#2
macafee2 This is my second home Rover 75 Saloon & Tourer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Lincoln Posts: 14,928 Thanks: 1,630 Thanked 3,032 Times in 2,181 Posts	coupled with the advert for the program was footage of near missis, the drivers were not paying attention. I'm sure I have seen the dash cam footage to this accident and the driver was paying attention https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNJKzssuJzE The mini bus broke down in lane 1, the hard shoulder was barrierd off. The lorry with the dash cam was also travelling in lane 1. The lorry was overtaken by another lorry which then pulled into lane 1. The lead lorry saw the mini bus and moved to lane 2, the lorry with the dash cam which was behind in lane 1 saw the mini bus that much later and could not avoid it. Loss of life and life changing injuries followed. The lorry driver with the dash cam was cleared of any offence and from what I saw in the dash cam footage, was the right decision. I cant find the clip on Youtube but as a driving lesson, it should be there I have set my recorder to record this program It is hardly surprising there are near missis and accidents due to no "hard shoulder" macafee2 Last edited by macafee2; 26th January 2020 at 20:05..

26th January 2020, 21:19	#4
roverbarmy This is my second home Roverless + 1.7D Sportage Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: East Norfolk Posts: 7,050 Thanks: 729 Thanked 2,021 Times in 1,449 Posts	Having spent a long period of my life recovering HGVs from motorways, I would say that a hard shoulder is an absolute necessity. Even where there is one, it is a very dangerous place to be. I always parked my HGV recovery truck behind the stranded vehicle with the wheels pointing hard left until all the prep work was done before lifting/recovering. I would then pull around the vehicle to be recovered and attach the lifters or links at the last minute. It's not until you've been directly next to a busy motorway that you get the true sense of danger involved. I've heard of horrendous accidents that are rarely fully reported but folks in "the trade" are fully aware of. Never ever sit in your vehicle waiting to be recovered and when the recovery vehicle does arrive, stay clear until the recoverer has done his/her work. Stay safe folks. __________________ Oil in my veins!

26th January 2020, 21:59	#5
Astraeus Regional Secretary North Scotland MG ZS Exclusive 1.0T Auto 2022 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Tayport Posts: 5,754 Thanks: 1,676 Thanked 1,855 Times in 1,058 Posts	Good Advice Very good advice. Anything hitting you at 70mph is going to be catastrophic. Get out, get on the other side of the barrier where fitted and well away from the road. Cars can be replaced, people cannot.

29th January 2020, 11:03	#10
Phil th Barrow Gets stuck in " NOW SOLD" :-( Rover 75 Conni Auto SE Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Stoke Posts: 896 Thanks: 424 Thanked 214 Times in 163 Posts	Smart motorways are im guessing th cheapest option to maximise there potential. Th out come is taken into "there account" … Iv driven 31 years commercially so nothing surprises me at all what goes on and witnessed things I wish id never seen. Driving is a very dangerous thing to do indeed.. I feel for th poor families. They suffer th most... __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

26th January 2020, 23:44	#6
coolguy Coolguy Rover 75 CDT Tourer Auto, Rover 75 2.0 Connoisseur Auto, MG ZT 2.5 Auto and MG ZT Cdti Auto (Monogra Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Finedon Posts: 1,897 Thanks: 933 Thanked 638 Times in 430 Posts	Don't know why they are wasting time and resources on an enquiry - I could have told them 5 years ago, when they were postulated that Smart Motorways were lethal. In addition , a motorway cannot be smart - it is an inanimate object! Worse still, nobody has pointed out that modern cars give no warning of suddenly stopping - older ones would cough and splutter, but would carry on for a few miles., thus getting to a safe refuge. Avoid at all costs.

28th January 2020, 21:26	#9
grivas I really should get out more....... Rover 75 CDT Club Tourer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Milky Way Posts: 2,380 Thanks: 105 Thanked 513 Times in 382 Posts	Who ever thought this insane and utterly moronic idea should have been locked up for plain stupidity until the legal system had time to decide what to actually charge him/her with!!! Smart motorways? What's smart about them!