EU vote?

[topman]

Originally Posted by Polly

I have often wondered what is the effect in their homeland of current migration to Uk, I would imagine it is doing them no favours at all, although perhaps the cash we throw at them will be helping those at the top

I think it's very much a mixed bag. Some do reasonabl well many others not so well as many people leave for jobs elsewhere.

[bobthebuilder]

Originally Posted by WillyHeckaslike

They would first have to get into Dublin and that would be no easier than it is now because the ROI will continue to maintain its external border controls because it is not in the Shengen. The freedom of movement that currently exists between ROI and the UK does so because of the Common Travel Area which both have signed up for, the agreement has nothing to do with Europe and it will continue regardless as long as both parties want it.

Since 'taking control' of our borders is so important to the Leave campaign, it seems inconceivable that border controls won't be imposed.

In addition, once the trade terms have finally been agreed and presumably tariffs determined, more controls will be required to charge them etc.

The ROI seems very worried about the UK voting leave as it will adversely effect their economy.

[Polly]

It's some time since I was in Ireland, but don't you need positive identification before boarding a ferry or aircraft? If I'm correct, surely it would possible to control who comes to the mainland, and even if I'm wrong, they still wouldn't be able to work in the UK, even if they could get in by the back door. To be perfectly honest, if someone really wanted to enter the Uk, I'm sure they could, even if they had to arrive in a fishing boat.
So even if the system is not perfect, as least we would have some sort of a handle on migration. Even if you believe the current migration is good for the economy, do you really believe we could build something like 200,000 houses every year at least for the foreseeable future? The cost alone is mind boggling.
The IN campaign continually tell us that the migrant workers are essential to the running of our hospitals etc. Are we meant to assume that the euro zone is never going to find its way out of its present difficulties? Not much point continuing to be a member in that case, so I would imagine we have to assume they will eventually recover, so where will the staff for our hospitals come from, when the EU workers decide the wages at home are better?


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[Darcydog]

Sir James Dyson: 'So if we leave the EU no one will trade with us? Cobblers...'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/think...trade-with-us/

His analysis seems fair to me. And I would suggest he would know!



EDIT

I have just read this report/article again. Its content is quite staggering.

It should be required reading for all.

[Elliott]

This whole situation has deteriorated into a public schoolboy bickering session, What has happened to proper debates for and against, Its turning into a political party vote.
Vote for us conservatives point of view as this will happen, vote for us Labour point of view as that will happen, Oh and now we will start putting up silly posters of the other parties in almost caricature poses,
The sane members of this country want to hear unbiased arguments for and against from independent parties. Personally I don't think the political parties should be allowed to comment or persuade people to vote in favor of their own party. Sorry little rant over but its getting a bit stupid out there now, caused by our so called grown up MP's who are supposed to be there to guide the country not take the childish mickey out of each other Sorry again

[wraymond]

That pretty much says it all. You don't need loads of figures to be massaged to suit your angle. Just straightforward views from the sharp end. He's right, the rest is all cobblers. Cobblers awls.

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by Elliott

This whole situation has deteriorated into a public schoolboy bickering session, What has happened to proper debates for and against, Its turning into a political party vote.
Vote for us conservatives point of view as this will happen, vote for us Labour point of view as that will happen, Oh and now we will start putting up silly posters of the other parties in almost caricature poses,
The sane members of this country want to hear unbiased arguments for and against from independent parties. Personally I don't think the political parties should be allowed to comment or persuade people to vote in favor of their own party. Sorry little rant over but its getting a bit stupid out there now, caused by our so called grown up MP's who are supposed to be there to guide the country not take the childish mickey out of each other Sorry again

I was particularly dismayed to see the Labour Party Remain group having caricatures of Boris cavorting and dancing for the cameras.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can we have an adult debate - the Remain side argument is slipping into farce and personal attacks.

We all deserve far better than this.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

Originally Posted by Darcydog

I was particularly dismayed to see the Labour Party Remain group having caricatures of Boris cavorting and dancing for the cameras.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can we have an adult debate - the Remain side argument is slipping into farce and personal attacks.

We all deserve far better than this.

Yes! Exactly; makes me feel we are not taken at all seriously by these campaigners. I'm not interested in personalities or point scoring; I want the facts!

[Darcydog]

Originally Posted by wraymond

That pretty much says it all. You don't need loads of figures to be massaged to suit your angle. Just straightforward views from the sharp end. He's right, the rest is all cobblers. Cobblers awls.

It seems to be the most insightful and knowledgable analysis I have read so far. I feel it backs up what those who have remained above the silliness who have said all along that OUT or IN - the economy of the UK will survive and prosper.

What should be driving the debate is the Red Tape so loved by the EU, the open borders, migration (Dyson's take on that issue regarding the "Red Tape" they have to go through to employ a high class engineer from outside the EU is well worth reviewing) and of course our ability to make our own laws.

And this last point - is one that I personally have some difficulty with because there are many in the UK that have benefited from UK Law having a further oversight by the ECJ (European Court of Justice)

There is not a part-time worker in the UK that has not benefited from the ECJ ruling that employers were wrong to discriminate against part time workers re Pension Scheme Membership.

(And incidentally - the biggest culprit here was the NHS!! - So you can see why the then UK Government did not want Part Time Workers to win this case........ )

But despite this and my personal desire to wander round Europe at will in the future - I am still - on balance 75 to 80% in favour of Brexit.

I was about 65% - but Izzard et all this week and Dyson's excellent analysis today have moved me significantly further towards Brexit.

[Saga Lout]

If we leave and I think we might just do it, we get our title back. We used to be GB, now we are gb and slipping down even more. It's no shock to see those who stand to profit saying remain, the cheap Labour and suppressed wages suit those with the money, as long as the floodgates stay open this country will stay stagnant. I worry that our children know nothing about anything that used to matter, there's no useful knowledge being taught but they all know their rights.
I'm sure that it suits the EU to not want children taught about WW1 and 2, If the younger generation really understood, they might wonder we fought wars to surrender afterwards. The EU is just a small trading base when you consider the scope of free trade with the rest of the world, the door to the rest of the world is locked by the EU but....Who remembers The Chinese visit earlier this year when trade deals were so called signed, the same with India. We can thrive if that door is opened on the 24th, at the moment we can only look through the peephole at what's outside.
I want to see the burden of being the worlds free health service lifted off us, If I'm unwell I don't want to be behind someone that crept in with no papers, we get stung in Europe by their health services so why do we put up with it? Does anyone think that our social infrastructure can last much longer under this barrage, our schools in many areas have English as the third or forth language,that can't be right. The pressure to serve those who really shouldn't be here, is going to affect the already poor quality of Education for UK nationals, what chances are we giving them by keeping the borders open, I'm sorry to say it but we have the fattest teens in Europe, they alone are going to cost the health service dearly in the near future, with many forecast to die young from obesity related problems. We don't need the extra strain, our way of life has caused problems we are set to reap, we've allowed the McDonalds generation to gorge themselves on food, TV, Computer gaming for a quiet life, so little Johnny and his mates are all slobs.
I went off course a little there but, it was to make a point about the strain our services are under.

Has anyone here really had their life changed by the EU? apart from poor unchanged pay levels and high energy prices? Has anyone noticed traveling getting easier by being in? No, I thought not, we are the most spied on nation in the world, we are treated terribly if we just want to go on Holiday, the airports are a joke to use, I get sick of showing my passport just to leave for two weeks......The joke is that nobody that's crept in is going to be leaving through conventional means. Travel in the EU is only good for the ones sneaking in, the French Police turn a blind eye when the cameras are not there and we're getting swamped, we need to be able to turn them around and back to France, the French then need to ship them to Belgium and so forth but it does not happen. It will if we vote out.
As for trade deals, Brussels hasn't stopped trade between those who put up fences last year have they? Empty threats.
Vote out to try to regain some of what we've freely handed over, our budget deficit can fall faster as well with more money in the Bank.
The EU is terrified that the gravy train is rolling to a halt, if we leave, others will follow and the clubhouse will close.
Brexit or EURIN....There are many powerful people taking the EURIN for sure.