Timing Belt Special Tools (KV6) - Looking to hire.

stuadh · 4th December 2011, 20:50

Does anyone have a set of the special tools required for changing the timing belts for a KV6 ZT-T (190) that I could hire? Please PM me.

Yours Aye

Stuadh

Dashiel · 6th December 2011, 17:46

cue argument on whether you need the tools....

yes you don't *need* them

but if you want the job done as Rover and Dayco (belt manufacturer) specified, then use the tools.

It's all down to your wallet really.

mh007 · 6th December 2011, 17:52

What is your location ?

kaiser · 6th December 2011, 18:33

The tools are an absolute waste of time. This is the closest you get to an urban myth. And, on top of it, it will cost you extra in time and effort, rental and blown oil seals, very likely.
The guy who wrote this advice from MG/Rover has no understanding about how the system works.

This is simply a twin cam engine, with a set of slave cams, driven off the primary cams.
No-one in their right mind would start to ask for a tool for the 1.8. And they don't exist.
The same, exactly, is the case for the V6, except someone came up with the idea of the "tool".
The cam timing is checked on the back sprockets, where the markings on each set of sprockets (front as well as rear) must be in line, with the engine in the safe locked position.

That is all there is to it.

RN3212 · 6th December 2011, 18:47

I agree 100% with Kaiser.There's no bother whatsoever in doing the Belts without the Tools.Get a Haynes Manual,study Gadgetboy's brilliant How To,and take your time stripping down the engine The amount of stuff that has to come off makes the job seem complicated but if you double check everything coming off and going back on there's no great mystery involved.Allow yourself plenty of time cos you'll make plenty of mistakes if you're rushing
Best of Luck

stuadh · 6th December 2011, 20:54

Thanks. I certainly didn't want to start a massive debate on using the tools.

I have removed the engine to do a 140K overhaul, including replacing the clutch and loads of other stuff. Even though they were done 80K ago, the engine is sitting on the bench so access is easy. I have studied the Haynes manual but it is winding me up. Due to lack of clarity, I managed to take the tensioner off before realising that my cams were 180° out. Fortunately, I marked up the cams, so I just have to read the marks 180° out.

I'm also not fazed by the job. I've done the cam chain on my motorbike, which is a 4 in-line with a double overhead cam. No significant difference. I do need to remove the cam pulley to replace a cam end seal and here is where I think the tools would be useful; locking the cam while I undo the bolt. I could fabricate a tool, but that would cost time and effort. I could bodge something but I don't want to damage anything.

That said, I've just had a brainwave while writing this about using an oil filter tool to hold the cam steady - I even amazing myself, sometimes).

Yours Aye

Stuadh

mh007 · 6th December 2011, 21:16

Hi Stuadh

Assuming your going to replace all 3 belts, tensioner, idler & water pump, it's worth knowing that the camshaft sprocket bolts are stretch bolts & should only be used once.

Whilst I would agree with comments above about it being done without the tools, they were designed for a reason & you don't have to use the complete kit (thus leaving the oil seal in place)

You cannot really compare the KV6 with a K16 !

By the way, there is a tool to lock the camshaft sprockets on the K16 (1.8) & it comes in very handy as the Exhaust cam always like to rotate a few teeth on belt removal.

Mike Noc · 8th December 2011, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by GadgetBoy

The "special tool" is not a locking tool - it's a service aid.

It's designed so the youngest most inexperienced apprentice can do the job with minimal supervision and with no concession to cost/materials. Or in other words to be as cheap as possible for the dealer and as expensive as possible for the customer.

Once and for all .... IT'S A SERVICE AID!

Yep, and you can do the job easily enough without it. But this particular service aid does lock the camshafts, which is exactly what mhoo7 said.

Mike

chris75 · 9th December 2011, 10:41

Absolutely agree it's a service aid

But having done the job with it , I think it's a very good service aid !
particularly for refitting the back belts with no hassle at all . I also like the way you can slack off the front sprockets on their hubs to achieve a perfect fit of the belt with uniform tension .
All down to choice really , and availability .

stuadh · 9th December 2011, 17:49

I had another look at the car last night while doing an oil change on my bike (maybe taking my car off the road for a major overhaul in December wasn't such a good idea). Turns out my oil filter tool idea was right. Thankfully, my markings were good and using the rubber/canvas strap type of tool, I was able to manipulate and lock the cams while loosening and tightening the bolts. I did have to replace a cam end seal as one was leaking. All easy to do. Aligning the cams was simple too, having made the correct marks. I might edit this comment when I try turning the engine over for the first time, though.

Cheers for the help, everyone.

Stuadh :xmas-smiley-004:

4th December 2011, 20:50	#1
stuadh Regular poster MG ZT-T 190 & GSX1100G Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Here Posts: 76 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Timing Belt Special Tools (KV6) - Looking to hire. Does anyone have a set of the special tools required for changing the timing belts for a KV6 ZT-T (190) that I could hire? Please PM me. Yours Aye Stuadh

6th December 2011, 18:47	#5
RN3212 Gets stuck in Rover 75 Classic SE 2.0V6 Auto Moonstone Green Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Roscommon Posts: 839 Thanks: 315 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	I agree 100% with Kaiser.There's no bother whatsoever in doing the Belts without the Tools.Get a Haynes Manual,study Gadgetboy's brilliant How To,and take your time stripping down the engine The amount of stuff that has to come off makes the job seem complicated but if you double check everything coming off and going back on there's no great mystery involved.Allow yourself plenty of time cos you'll make plenty of mistakes if you're rushing Best of Luck __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

9th December 2011, 10:41	#9
chris75 same car since 2005 2001 Rover 75 2.0 v6 Connoisseur Saloon Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ellesmere Port , Cheshire Posts: 3,811 Thanks: 379 Thanked 549 Times in 466 Posts	Absolutely agree it's a service aid But having done the job with it , I think it's a very good service aid ! particularly for refitting the back belts with no hassle at all . I also like the way you can slack off the front sprockets on their hubs to achieve a perfect fit of the belt with uniform tension . All down to choice really , and availability . __________________ Who said it was simples ?

9th December 2011, 17:49	#10
stuadh Regular poster MG ZT-T 190 & GSX1100G Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Here Posts: 76 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	All Done! I had another look at the car last night while doing an oil change on my bike (maybe taking my car off the road for a major overhaul in December wasn't such a good idea). Turns out my oil filter tool idea was right. Thankfully, my markings were good and using the rubber/canvas strap type of tool, I was able to manipulate and lock the cams while loosening and tightening the bolts. I did have to replace a cam end seal as one was leaking. All easy to do. Aligning the cams was simple too, having made the correct marks. I might edit this comment when I try turning the engine over for the first time, though. Cheers for the help, everyone. Stuadh :xmas-smiley-004:

6th December 2011, 17:46	#2
Dashiel Posted a thing or two Rover 75 V6 2.0 Club Tourer LPG Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: South East Posts: 1,405 Thanks: 3 Thanked 39 Times in 34 Posts	cue argument on whether you need the tools.... yes you don't need them but if you want the job done as Rover and Dayco (belt manufacturer) specified, then use the tools. It's all down to your wallet really.

6th December 2011, 17:52	#3
mh007 This is my second home MG ZT260 SE, MG ZT190+, MG ZTT 160, R75 Conn SE 2.0, R75 Conn SE 2.5 X 3, R75 Club SE 1.8, P5B Coupe Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Keynsham, Bristol Posts: 4,211 Thanks: 65 Thanked 635 Times in 499 Posts	What is your location ?

6th December 2011, 18:33	#4
kaiser This is my second home 75 Tourer 2.5 Auto, 1.8T, 75V8ZT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Johannesburg ZA Posts: 6,200 Thanks: 1 Thanked 859 Times in 613 Posts	The tools are an absolute waste of time. This is the closest you get to an urban myth. And, on top of it, it will cost you extra in time and effort, rental and blown oil seals, very likely. The guy who wrote this advice from MG/Rover has no understanding about how the system works. This is simply a twin cam engine, with a set of slave cams, driven off the primary cams. No-one in their right mind would start to ask for a tool for the 1.8. And they don't exist. The same, exactly, is the case for the V6, except someone came up with the idea of the "tool". The cam timing is checked on the back sprockets, where the markings on each set of sprockets (front as well as rear) must be in line, with the engine in the safe locked position. That is all there is to it.

6th December 2011, 20:54	#6
stuadh Regular poster MG ZT-T 190 & GSX1100G Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Here Posts: 76 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks. I certainly didn't want to start a massive debate on using the tools. I have removed the engine to do a 140K overhaul, including replacing the clutch and loads of other stuff. Even though they were done 80K ago, the engine is sitting on the bench so access is easy. I have studied the Haynes manual but it is winding me up. Due to lack of clarity, I managed to take the tensioner off before realising that my cams were 180° out. Fortunately, I marked up the cams, so I just have to read the marks 180° out. I'm also not fazed by the job. I've done the cam chain on my motorbike, which is a 4 in-line with a double overhead cam. No significant difference. I do need to remove the cam pulley to replace a cam end seal and here is where I think the tools would be useful; locking the cam while I undo the bolt. I could fabricate a tool, but that would cost time and effort. I could bodge something but I don't want to damage anything. That said, I've just had a brainwave while writing this about using an oil filter tool to hold the cam steady - I even amazing myself, sometimes). Yours Aye Stuadh

6th December 2011, 21:16	#7
mh007 This is my second home MG ZT260 SE, MG ZT190+, MG ZTT 160, R75 Conn SE 2.0, R75 Conn SE 2.5 X 3, R75 Club SE 1.8, P5B Coupe Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Keynsham, Bristol Posts: 4,211 Thanks: 65 Thanked 635 Times in 499 Posts	Hi Stuadh Assuming your going to replace all 3 belts, tensioner, idler & water pump, it's worth knowing that the camshaft sprocket bolts are stretch bolts & should only be used once. Whilst I would agree with comments above about it being done without the tools, they were designed for a reason & you don't have to use the complete kit (thus leaving the oil seal in place) You cannot really compare the KV6 with a K16 ! By the way, there is a tool to lock the camshaft sprockets on the K16 (1.8) & it comes in very handy as the Exhaust cam always like to rotate a few teeth on belt removal.