Long term Jobless.

[coolcat]

Originally Posted by rasa

the amount of benefits which falsely get claimed does not even come close to the amount which is dodged in tax evasion, mostly done by the well off,this is fact

Time to substantiate those facts then

[rich17865]

As an employer, I can tell you that in my experience people in the majority do not want to work.

Here is an example of some recent employees,

1, 23 years old, male, English, skilled in his trade, no dependants, living at parents home. Would call in sick at least once a week so he could play Xbox. How did I find this out? His dad told me. he came into work one morning walking like he had been hit by a bus, I asked what was wrong, he said he had a bloodshot eye and wanted to go home. I sacked him on the spot.

2, 16 year old, male, English, unskilled, living at parents home, no dependants. After two weeks learning what I expect of him at work, we started a job where I was working with him. 20 minutes into the day he sat down and started playing games on his phone. Gobsmacked, I asked if he was OK, he just replied 'yeh'. Another sacked on the spot.

3, 30 year old, male, English, semi skilled, living in private rented accommodation, 2 children. After getting tired of his lack of interest in simple instruction, he came to work one morning, unshaven, with egg and toothpaste down his uniform. I asked him when he comes to work to take some pride in his appearance, have a wash, wear clean clothes, the response was "if you don't like it, I will **** off now and leave you in the ****". So I sacked him there and then too.

4, 20 years old, male, Polish, semi skilled, living in private rented accommodation, 1 child. On the first day of a two day job, he was left alone to carry on while I had another job to attend to, by 4pm, he had finished the two day job on his own, above the standard I expected. As a reward I still paid him the two days and let him have the second day off with his family. I was gutted when I couldn't convince him to stay in England as he had to go back to his ill mother in Poland.

Thankfully I am currently employing a 19 year old lad who works just as hard as the Polish guy, but believe me, if he asks for a pay rise, he will get one.

I actually interviewed a skilled guy in his 40's who was clearly made to attend an interview by the job centre, when he asked about the pay he said to my face, "that works out only £40 better than claiming, so I will leave the job thanks".

Employees don't know how hard it is finding people that actually want to work. If you don't know what I mean, you probably work hard too.

Becoming an employer is definitely the hardest thing I have ever done. But in my short and limited experience, I feel there is an attitude leaning towards employers owing people something for just turning up, and a definite attitude of cannot be botheredness.

So my view is definitely that people can be scroungers and prefer it to working, but in the same tongue that there are some great genuine people left too.

Can the government support this culture? No. But they will have to find a way because the bone idle layabout scum will do nothing different. I agree that if out of work they should be forced to do something to better society, cleaning up rubbish, graffiti or similar. Or even going to work for free to help support local business, you never know if they make an effort the business will recognise that and offer them a job.

I don't accept this "there are no jobs" excuse either. There are plenty of jobs, and if the unemployed were that interested in working they would find a job next day. As an employee I was never out if work for more than a couple of days, and when a house move to a different area fell through, I got myself another job the same day working with some Spanish guys cleaning pots in a kitchen.

Eastern Europeans get a bad talk about taking jobs, but they travel very long distances, often leaving their families behind to get a better paid job than they had at home. They come here because there are plenty of jobs to be had, if there wasn't, they wouldn't come, simple really.

I know some of this is simplistic, and you may not agree with it, but that is my experience and views, like it or not.

[Gate Keeper]

Originally Posted by Jay

I used to be a social worker standing up for the rights of those with mental health problems. I now unfortunately find myself on the other side of the fence. The government has a lot to answer for for the way they handle those with mental health problems and benefits, shipping them out to private companies with a bonus if they can force them off benefits and on to the streets. Usually those who have problems defending themselves. Its act now and worry about the problem later with the governments attitude I cannot stand The UK will end up a shanty town for most!!!

Jay one of the jobs I worked in was in rehab in Hackney being responsible for ex-offenders with mental illness, addictions and alcoholism. Part of our remit was to find employment for people suffering from long term mental illness as this was part of the rehab process. The point being made here Jay is that not everyone who has long term mental illness is restricted from being able to return to work. I have no experience of private companies receiving a bonus forcing people off benefit and onto the streets. That is a new trick.

[rasa]

Originally Posted by coolcat

Time to substantiate those facts then

this was watched last year by me on tv, cannot remember the numbers exactly but here goes, 3.8 billion in benefits fraud, and 31 billion in tax evasion,

[trebor]

Thats a sad tale Rich of some peoples attitude to work.

On a lighter note it reminds me of when my wife ran a cafe and we had quite a few candidates sent by the job centre who were either openly not interested in the job, or didnt have any basic skills, one girl we took on a trial basis when asked to slice a banana left it in the skin to slice it !

[rich17865]

Originally Posted by trebor

Thats a sad tale Rich of some peoples attitude to work.

On a lighter note it reminds me of when my wife ran a cafe and we had quite a few candidates sent by the job centre who were either openly not interested about in the job, or didnt have any basic skills, one girl we took on a trial basis when asked to slice a banana left it in the skin to slice it !

That is one of few posts that have actually made me laugh out loud.

[FredSpencer]

Originally Posted by rasa

the amount of benefits which falsely get claimed does not even come close to the amount which is dodged in tax evasion, mostly done by the well off,this is fact

Originally Posted by coolcat

Time to substantiate those facts then

Originally Posted by rasa

this was watched last year by me on tv, cannot remember the numbers exactly but here goes, 3.8 billion in benefits fraud, and 31 billion in tax evasion,

A quick bit of Googling:

This site shows some figures about tax not paid.

And this site shows figures about benefit fraud.

As with everything it's all more complicated than a quick line with stark figures can portray. However, it does show there is a large difference between what doesn't get paid in tax that should be and what gets claimed wrongly by way of benefits.

[greendriver]

Been long term jobless in past...it didn't agree with me.

[rontug]

Been angered by this thread,but you put it in a nutshell.divide and rule.

[Gate Keeper]

I slept on the problem and have not been able to come up with a solution. I have at last put my cards on the table with no clear answers. Nothing is set in stone and I am not ready to throw in the towel with this country. Fred what can you bring to the party? If you would not wish to go there, no problemo!