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Old 3rd February 2020, 23:02   #1
Les Paul
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Default 03 CDT Conny Tourer - Random cut-out and Smorgasbord of sundry issues :-{

Being the prior owner of “The Guvnah”, a P5B Coupe I used to ponder what an estate version of the P5 would look like. Then along came the 75 Tourer J I couldn’t pass this bad boy up in Moonstone Green as it’s the nearest relative to the P5 I’m ever likely to afford but it looks like ‘The Guvnah mkII’ has decided he wants to throw all the common 75 wobblers in one go!

Had the car about four years and up to now it’s run like a swiss watch. It had a dead ITP when bought and I was warned to keep it at least a ¼ full. Fair enough for £695
Last year it cut out without visible reason with a couple of clicks from the glove box area and a few flashes of the oil pressure idiot light. It then started immediately on the turn of the key and didn’t repeat the fault for another 6 months. It then started to fault on a more regular basis, again with the same clicking and flashing routine, but always fired up first crank. A new in-tank pump was obviously long overdue and at that point (never having owned a diesel before) I started googling this fault. Newly informed of the extra load imposed on the 2nd u/b pump I sourced a s/h tank unit pronto and swapped it out a few months back. Up until that point the u/b pump had been doing the fuel lifting donkey work on its lonesome…for four years! Crikey. The UBP has only occasionally sounded its protest at the unpaid overtime it’s put in with a shrill whining cavitationy noise which apparently is the sign it’s on the way out, mostly it just purrs for 30secs and shuts off as it should.
A month ago it had to be low loaded back home from the farm gate and wouldn’t start, next day it fired up immediately…aaaargh. Can’t risk running it now.
One curious feature did appear though whether this is a possible clue or not I don’t know; I keep a couple of dinghies at a local farm (big part of why I bought the car) and on three occasions when leaving it’s cut out in exactly the same place as I turn left out onto the main road, straighten up, drive twenty yards and click click click – flash flash flash?? Twice could be coincidence but three times? OK this is serious.

Decided to give it a good going over starting with the filters, air, fuel, cabin filter (ECU fine – plenums bone dry) and the PCV filter and got an oil filter ready for the garage to fit as I’ve no jack/axle stands or work space come to that. Naturally they were all filthy as was the inlet manifold and the EGR valve was effectively down to a 1” bore with the manky accretions therein. I fabbed up some blanking plates and sluiced the manifold out with white spirit followed by a mix of hot water/ half a cup of soap powder and a cupful of fish tank gravel. Worked a treat, ruined me shoes! Gave the MAF sensor a discrete blast with switch cleaner, checked all electrical connections with a squirt of contact cleaner to be sure and reinstalled everything… right here we go…Rats... nowt!


I’d cycled the pumps a few times to prime the new filter into which I’d added a big slug of Millers Inj. Cleaner as seems to be the advice and gave it a crank: it seemed like it was trying to fire with a chug at every crank revolution but after ten seconds it stopped doing that and seemed to just freewheel on the starter, no chug. Was that just the residual fuel in the rail? I pulled the delivery hose off the filter and it filled a honey jar in about 2secs so there seems to be adequate flow, whether it's supplying when in line and under load I'm not sure of. Prior to the filter swap/s it was actually running but now it's dead as disco. I did fork out on a P-Scan unit a few months beforehand but it didn’t throw up anything other than the ubiquitous glow-plug code. Applying it this afternoon tells me I’ve got a…

P3505 – the G/Ps

P1250 – Delivery pump relay - I did whip out the relay but without knowing what if anything is inside it re diodes/chips or whatever I was loathe to clap volts onto it willy nilly.

P1269 – Delivery pump control sys. - I suppose if the relay is tatered there wouldn’t be any pump control sys.

And something called
P1e00 – CAN comms to ASC (?)


...and I did scavenge one reading of the low pressure supply at 340kPa on cranking which slowly fell back when cranking stops.


One oddity which I caught out of the corner of my eye as I pulled the OBD connector; the LED in the l/hand mirror adjustment selector button was lit, when I pulled the connector it then went out? Was that part of the car’s ‘handshake’ with the P-Scan unit? I did grab a screenshot of what ‘live’ data was available seeing as it isn’t running and can upload that if it might pin anything down.

So that’s where I am at the moment. First job is to get this baby purring again and then attend to the ABS judder (local garage couldn’t figure it), the water ingress from the bodged rear light clusters, the spinning door lock barrel, the variable fob locking/alarm, airbag light/connector and the bipolar CD changer, the feel of the bonnet release means I daren’t even shut the bonnet down until I’ve stripped and lubed ‘em, oh and some numpty replaced a centre punched driver’s window without vacuuming out the seal so the first time he pushed the up button…screeeeiiiiiiitzch!! Been bugging me since I bought him, it gots ta go.

All advice and critique welcome.

Last edited by Les Paul; 3rd February 2020 at 23:06..
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Old 3rd February 2020, 23:46   #2
MarkS
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IMHO P1e00 Canbus to ASC is the significant error message.

Without CANBUS communication, the car will instantly stop.
If the CANBUS (intermittent) fault goes away, the car will restart.

Sounds like an intermittent connection, or a damaged CANBUS wire.

My 52 tourer did a similar thing, as have other cars.

(Turned out to be an intermittent connection of the CANBUS power supply from the engine fusebox, cured by removing, cleaning and refitting all under-engine fusebox connectors.)

But your CANBUS fault may be elsewhere in the car.

IMHO, you need a T4 session or TOAF to see what further information can be had, followed by a pronouncement by one of the gurus.
In the meantime, in the absence of any new information, try the fusebox connectors.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 23:52   #3
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The CANBUS controller in the ECM has bought the farm, the dead giveaway is the flashing oil pressure warning lamp, coupled with a chattering fuel pump relay

I can sort this out either by means of a service exchange (preferable in the case of an NNN500340 ECM) or a repair in the case of an NNN100720.

Let me know if you want any more info

Brian
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Old 3rd February 2020, 23:54   #4
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Talking


/MarkS prostrates himself before the all-knowing God Brian of the Ancient Marina, may it's treads never wear down !

Last edited by MarkS; 4th February 2020 at 00:01..
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Old 4th February 2020, 10:09   #5
Les Paul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
IMHO P1e00 Canbus to ASC is the significant error message... Sounds like an intermittent connection, or a damaged CANBUS wire....your CANBUS fault may be elsewhere in the car.
With you: I've spent 30 odd years in the electrical trade doing everything from bolting heavy switch panels onto factories to machine tool breakdown to pulling blown components out of amplifiers but to my shame never got round to keeping up to speed with vehicle electrical systems. Have to admit to being a bit of a Luddite when it comes to cars and I long for a return to a simple carburrated V8 with not even central locking! K-Bus, CAN-bus = "on the bus" in my mind. I dunno; modern cars (like modern phones) are getting too clever for their own good and there's probably more raw computing power in my instrument binnacle than landed man on the moon

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
IMHO, you need a T4 session or TOAF to see what further information can be had.
Well I did download TOAF and the interface lead is under the desk as I type and it did indeed hook up, quizzed the car and returned a sack full of data. The thing is without knowing what those pressures and voltages signify I was somewhat in the dark. No backup for it either notwithstanding the language barrier. In the end I decided to bite the bullet/wallet and invest in a P-Scan unit, single Dad to two young lads so it was a significant outlay but worth it for the fact that (a) the guy took the trouble to do it in the first place and deserves reward (b) I like to buy British whenever possible (hey it's a Rover) and (c) there is the backup in the form of the P-Scan forum if I get stuck with the software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
In the meantime, in the absence of any new information, try the fusebox connectors.
gotcha, will do... I do recall a youtube vid I came across (presumably made by Rover) explaining the function of these two 'K' and 'CAN' busses. Think I'd better revisit them before I start poking about with it.

Thanks for your time Mark
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Old 4th February 2020, 10:27   #6
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MarinaBrian is the man.
Your ECM needs repairing.

And a visit to your local guru is recommended.
You'll soon get her purring again.

(I wonder if a P5B comes with CANBUS ???)
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Old 4th February 2020, 10:43   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marinabrian View Post
The CANBUS controller in the ECM has bought the farm, the dead giveaway is the flashing oil pressure warning lamp, coupled with a chattering fuel pump relay
There is a surety about that answer which is simultaneously hugely uplifting but yet deeply depressing

Quote:
Originally Posted by marinabrian View Post
I can sort this out either by means of a service exchange (preferable in the case of an NNN500340 ECM) or a repair in the case of an NNN100720.
Hmmm had a dread feeling it was the ECU when it first started playing up so a prime mover in changing out the pollen filter was to get this thing out and into the daylight. First look in the plenum showed no indication that it had ever flooded but I thought I'd check properly by opening the casing to physically check the actual cct board components, tracks and connectors. To my great relief it was pretty much mint inside, no signs whatsoever of water damage, verdigris, overheats, bulging caps, lifting tracks or dry joints. Of course I know a visual inspection with the Mk1 eyeball is no definitive kind of test. I've been searching optimistically for the possible peripheral causes, sensors and the like (i.e. cheaper to fix) rather than commit the ECU for surgery or replacement. Gotta laugh though; the bloke who low loaded it actually said on the way back if you ever want to sell the car or break it let me know because I'll have the ECU and ancilliary bits off you in a heartbeat... cash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marinabrian View Post
Let me know if you want any more info

Brian
You betcha, just gotta whip it back out and check which one it is but I'll say this much after 3 months on a s**ding pushbike...

Brian; if this is the fix then this World is yours and we merely wander its surface.
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Old 4th February 2020, 14:19   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marinabrian View Post
service exchange (preferable in the case of an NNN500340 ECM) or a repair in the case of an NNN100720.
Right, whipped it out and... hmm... it's neither of those. I've got two labels on it:

The one nearest the connector 'choc block' with the Bosch & BMW logos is telling me it's a NNN 100 692 and underneath that I've got 7 785 541

The other smaller label at the opposite end has NNW101521 printed on it with the numerals 4149 immediately underneath it. Then there's a thick black line and below that is a bit of the chassis number SARRJZTHC and under that in large typeface I've got 3D263148.
Am I stretching it to think this one came out of a ZT?

That's going to mean a lot more to you than to me Brian.

Last edited by Les Paul; 4th February 2020 at 14:26..
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Old 4th February 2020, 15:50   #9
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The ZT part of the Vin is nothing to do with a ZT
Z = Connie
T= Tourer

An NNN100692 is the early manual ECU and shouldn't be a problem both Brian and myself have service replacements in stock

There's no visible sign of the Can bus controller chip failing they just do, but that particular chip is no longer available so the only option is a service replacement ECU I'm afraid.

Russ
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