The future of the internal combustion engine - Page 3

MSS · 19th October 2018, 14:34

It feels to me that the majority here are missing the point.

By say about 2050, the wealth redistribution that is taking place will mean that the majority of the population will not be able to afford a car. The significantly smaller population in possession of significant wealth will be able able to afford and drive whatever technology is available at the time. The masses will struggle to make ends meet on minimal wages to the extent that car affordability will not be their primary concern - survivability on meager earnings will be.

The redistribution of wealth, combined with the lack of availability of affordable medicine, will ensure that driving in old age will not be relevant or a primary concern. People will be dying earlier. This will also address the issue of increasing demand and funding for the NHS and other infrastructure.

You are all worrying unnecessarily. Think positively.

stevestrat · 19th October 2018, 14:36

Unless there is a major leap in battery technology giving more range and faster charging electric vehicles will remain little more than a novelty. Great to potter to and from the shops but considering the current average range for an electric car is 100 miles they are utterly useless for any distance. Half your holiday will be spent in hotels en route waiting for the thing to charge ready for tomorrow's instalment of the journey. What about freight transport, public transport, trains, is the government going to fund the electrification of every mile of the rail network . . . . pigs might fly!

Politicians need to stop leaping on the "green" bandwagon and look at the reality. When there are viable alternatives to the internal combustion engine then start setting deadlines, until then they're just setting themselves up for a fail.

Ian G · 19th October 2018, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by mss

It feels to me that the majority here are missing the point.

By say about 2050, the wealth redistribution that is taking place will mean that the majority of the population will not be able to afford a car. The significantly smaller population in possession of significant wealth will be able able to afford and drive whatever technology is available at the time. The masses will struggle to make ends meet on minimal wages to the extent that car affordability will not be their primary concern - survivability on meager earnings will be.

The redistribution of wealth, combined with the lack of availability of affordable medicine, will ensure that driving in old age will not be relevant or a primary concern. People will be dying earlier. This will also address the issue of increasing demand and funding for the NHS and other infrastructure.

You are all worrying unnecessarily. Think positively.

And now I find myself whistling "always look on the bright side of life"
if things are really going to be that bad then when I pass on I'll tell the kids to store me under the stairs, at least then they can burn me to keep warm when society goes into metltdown..

bikerdude666 · 19th October 2018, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevestrat

trains, is the government going to fund the electrification of every mile of the rail network . . . . pigs might fly!

There were several major electrification programmes in progress, one of which is round my area, we've had several bridges close to road traffic while they're altered to allow the electrification. Then last year 3 of the schemes were cancelled, I believe they're finishing what work has been started, but no new sections are to be started.

As for the charging, I agree that the infrastructure would need massive investment, and this won't be done by 2030, probably not even 2040. But with the wireless charging now available on phones, I'd assume the technology could be adapted for vehicles, with sections of road providing charge as you drive along, and parking spaces charging while you shop or eat etc. The likes of contactless card payment and apple pay etc, combined with a DVLA type department, each car could have an electronic ID, which runs up a tab for charging and a bill issued. Or if manufacturers have a universal battery pack, petrol stations could become battery changing stations. Takes a little longer but drive in, they remove the flat batteries, install a fresh pack, off you go and they charge the pack from yours for another customer later.

I'm dreading the day I have to get an electric car, I like the noise of an IC engine, and I hate the idea of driving something without gears, I want 3 pedals and a gearstick, not a go-kart.

I took my son to an open day at the National Training Academy for Rail hosted by Siemens a couple of weeks ago and there was a group there from Birmingham University demonstrating their small scale hydrogen powered train. Only a small thing, 7 1/2" gauge or something like that, but it seemed to work reliably throughout the day.

T-Cut · 19th October 2018, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by mss

The significantly smaller population in possession of significant wealth will be able able to afford and drive whatever technology is available at the time.

I think it will evolve over a few decades into something like Mad Max, so don't get rid of all those bits'n'bobs just yet.

Mike Trident · 19th October 2018, 15:33

I believe the government gets the public onto their side first, loads of scare mongering etc. We are all doomed.

Then the public are more willing to accept huge hikes in road tax etc. Does huge road tax clean the air? No, it goes to the government.

I believe that most of this, let's get onto electric from western countries is more a case of let's stop sending billions to the middle eastern countries, which are often unstable. Using their oil has turn these countries into superpowers, which could be dangerous.

stevestrat · 19th October 2018, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikerdude666

There were several major electrification programmes in progress, one of which is round my area, we've had several bridges close to road traffic while they're altered to allow the electrification. Then last year 3 of the schemes were cancelled, I believe they're finishing what work has been started, but no new sections are to be started.

Electrification is a massive capital outlay, ballpark figure is between £500k and £650k per kilometer depending on the number of bridges requiring modification etc. Of the 15,811km of railways in the UK only 5,374km are electrified, taking a mid figure of £600k per km that's a mind boggling £6262,200,000 to do the rest of the network. Either that or cut the network in a way that would make Beeching look like an enthusiast!

Groundhog · 19th October 2018, 16:02

If it’s anything like the Brexit negotiations 2040 will turn into 2070

bl52krz · 19th October 2018, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris75

" It's in lovely condition , just needs a new battery ! "

Yes. New battery. Only £4000. It’s a joke and people are falling for it hook line and sinker.

SCP440 · 19th October 2018, 18:05

My guess is unless the charging times and range are improved dramatically by the cut off date the government will either have to extend the deadline or '' old cars'' will be kept going. As long as the parts are available there is no reason internal combustion powered vehicles can not be made to last for a couple of decades.

Then there is the classic cars, yes some of these can be converted to the new technology but in truth the majority will stay as they were made and unless there use is severely restricted in some way these will still need petrol.

Then there is the commercial vehicles, some of these are on the road 16 hours a day, there is no way these can sit for hours being charged, will they be exempt from the new rules and if so petrol stations will have to stay for those.

My guess petrol stations as we know them now will still be around for 20 years or so after the last petrol powered cars is produced and maybe there will just be more hybrids? Maybe we will just have more unmanned petrol stations like there are abroad if there is less demand?

19th October 2018, 14:34	#21
MSS This is my second home Rover 75CDT, Jaguar XF-S 3.0V6, V'xhall Omega V6 Estate, Twintop 1.8VVT, Astra Estate and Corsa 1.2 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7,085 Thanks: 283 Thanked 624 Times in 440 Posts	It feels to me that the majority here are missing the point. By say about 2050, the wealth redistribution that is taking place will mean that the majority of the population will not be able to afford a car. The significantly smaller population in possession of significant wealth will be able able to afford and drive whatever technology is available at the time. The masses will struggle to make ends meet on minimal wages to the extent that car affordability will not be their primary concern - survivability on meager earnings will be. The redistribution of wealth, combined with the lack of availability of affordable medicine, will ensure that driving in old age will not be relevant or a primary concern. People will be dying earlier. This will also address the issue of increasing demand and funding for the NHS and other infrastructure. You are all worrying unnecessarily. Think positively. Last edited by MSS; 19th October 2018 at 14:37..

19th October 2018, 14:36	#22
stevestrat This is my second home ZT260 #243 (resting) Join Date: May 2010 Location: Prestonpans Posts: 22,479 Thanks: 650 Thanked 4,624 Times in 3,358 Posts	Unless there is a major leap in battery technology giving more range and faster charging electric vehicles will remain little more than a novelty. Great to potter to and from the shops but considering the current average range for an electric car is 100 miles they are utterly useless for any distance. Half your holiday will be spent in hotels en route waiting for the thing to charge ready for tomorrow's instalment of the journey. What about freight transport, public transport, trains, is the government going to fund the electrification of every mile of the rail network . . . . pigs might fly! Politicians need to stop leaping on the "green" bandwagon and look at the reality. When there are viable alternatives to the internal combustion engine then start setting deadlines, until then they're just setting themselves up for a fail. __________________ Steve T4 Location Map

19th October 2018, 15:33	#26
Mike Trident Posted a thing or two Rover 75 CDTi Saloon & Citroen C1 Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Oakenshaw, Near Bradford Posts: 1,622 Thanks: 385 Thanked 552 Times in 328 Posts	I believe the government gets the public onto their side first, loads of scare mongering etc. We are all doomed. Then the public are more willing to accept huge hikes in road tax etc. Does huge road tax clean the air? No, it goes to the government. I believe that most of this, let's get onto electric from western countries is more a case of let's stop sending billions to the middle eastern countries, which are often unstable. Using their oil has turn these countries into superpowers, which could be dangerous. __________________ Rover 75 2.0 CDTi (131Ps) Conn SE Saloon. (Manual) 160 Remap, cruise control, electric window blind, temp gauge, Real walnut / ZT interior, FBH with GSM control. BORN Tuesday, 5th October 2004 @ 12:35:52 This vehicle was the 104,679th 75 to run off the production line, out of 112,381 This vehicle was the 3,318th 75 CDT Connoisseur SE (135) to be made out of 4,744 This vehicle was the 12,440th 75 in Starlight Silver (code: MBB) to be made out of 14,280 Starlight Silver 75s

19th October 2018, 16:02	#28
Groundhog Posted a thing or two Citroen C5 Aircross Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: East Durham Coast Posts: 1,140 Thanks: 161 Thanked 622 Times in 301 Posts	If it’s anything like the Brexit negotiations 2040 will turn into 2070

19th October 2018, 18:05	#30
SCP440 I really should get out more....... MG ZT-T 260 Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Witney Posts: 2,504 Thanks: 6 Thanked 910 Times in 571 Posts	My guess is unless the charging times and range are improved dramatically by the cut off date the government will either have to extend the deadline or '' old cars'' will be kept going. As long as the parts are available there is no reason internal combustion powered vehicles can not be made to last for a couple of decades. Then there is the classic cars, yes some of these can be converted to the new technology but in truth the majority will stay as they were made and unless there use is severely restricted in some way these will still need petrol. Then there is the commercial vehicles, some of these are on the road 16 hours a day, there is no way these can sit for hours being charged, will they be exempt from the new rules and if so petrol stations will have to stay for those. My guess petrol stations as we know them now will still be around for 20 years or so after the last petrol powered cars is produced and maybe there will just be more hybrids? Maybe we will just have more unmanned petrol stations like there are abroad if there is less demand?