75 KV6 2.5 Engine replacement

Palma75 · 24th November 2018, 09:23

Hello All,

I'm almost as new to big Rovers as I am to this group so thanks in advance for any help.

I am in Mallorca and I recently bought a pretty mint non running 75 2.5 Club automatic. I was told that the engine is shot and it does not turn. Upon cranking, it makes a sound like a shot starter motor. I notice that when someone attempts to start the car, slight movement can be felt at the alternator belt. This belt looks very cracked and degraded so I assume that one of the cam belts has probably parted.

I have a replacement low milage ZS KV6 on its way down to Mallorca from the UK. Its out of a manual car, however. I assume that I can just remove the torque converter from my car and fit it to the replacement engine.

My questions are then:

Can I simply change flywheel for torque converter?
What electronic elements will i have to swap over to satisft the ecu
Space looks very tight, whats the easiest way to get the engine in and out? I saw that Mr. Stocktake removed the slam panel etc.
Are there any fatal pitfalls that can ruin the whole excercise?

Many thanks in advance for any helpful input.

Mark

stocktake · 24th November 2018, 09:51

Wow, that brings back memories.
All existing electrics/harnesses used, watch out for crank sensor it was in a different position on the manual if I remember correctly. long time ago now but yes flywheel off, ring gear plate on. The torque converter stays in the gearbox bell and bolts up to the ring gear plate when the engine was in place, it only goes on in one position as the bolt pattern is not even. Check the sump is the same. I think the fitting for the lower engine mount was different.
Dave...

SD1too · 24th November 2018, 09:58

Hello Mark and

to the club.

Here are some lessons i have learnt over a lifetime of doing my own car maintenance (including modification in my younger days

):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palma75

I was told that the engine is shot ...

Don't automatically believe what you're told, particularly in those terms which suggest that the speaker hasn't a clue what is wrong!

Quote:

Upon cranking, it makes a sound like a shot starter motor.

Perhaps it is a faulty starter motor.

That's very easy to check on your KV6.

Quote:

I notice that when someone attempts to start the car, slight movement can be felt at the alternator belt.

I'm not sure that I follow Mark. Are you saying that the ancillary belt remains virtually stationary?

Quote:

This belt looks very cracked and degraded so I assume that one of the cam belts has probably parted.

Assumptions can turn out to be expensive mistakes Mark! Why not find out properly? It's not too difficult to remove the LH bank cam cover and expose the camshafts. That will tell you whether or not the front timing belt is intact (and that's the one which is vulnerable if the tensioner or idler pulleys have reached the end of their life). Alternatively, removing the LH bank rear camshaft sprocket wheel cover will allow you to observe the same thing.

Simon

Palma75 · 24th November 2018, 10:00

Thanks Dave, I read a few of your posts and had hoped that you'd reply.

So if I understand, I need to take off everything that was connected to the cars loom that I find on the original engine and refit them on the replacement engine?

The sump is different because it has the engine mount fitted to it?

Crank position sensor - that should be pretty self explanatory.

I saw one of your post pictures that had the front panels removed. I'm not with the car right now but thats the standard way to go about the job? Looks very tight in there.

Seriously, thanks a lot!

BigRuss · 24th November 2018, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by stocktake

Wow, that brings back memories.
Dave...

It certainly does Dave, I remember getting the engine out of the ZS very well

IIRC the rear engine mount was indeed different but I seem to remember it wasn't too much of a problem, think you fitted a different length bolt and a small spacer

Russ

Lovel · 24th November 2018, 12:05

Depending on the age of the KV6 engines:

1. You may find that the large alloy front timing cover may need to be changed out to be able to fit the 3 bolt mounting for your power steering pump.

2. The front and rear camshaft covers may need to be changed due to different mounting points for the coils. If you need to do this it is a good chance to clean the engine breathers out as most will be gummed up.

Also for consideration:

Change out the thermostat plastic pipes for new, ensure seats for o-ring landing area are smooth and clean and suitable for an o-ring to seal upon with no craters etc, and use molykote silicon grease on all o-ring surfaces upon fitting.

Retorque the inlet manifold gaskets after some miles as over the engines life they begin to weep due to settlement.

Palma75 · 24th November 2018, 12:17

Thanks chaps, all input is welcome. I only want to do this job once so I shall look carefully at everything. People seem to change the water pumps and tensioners with the belts? Stretch bolts here and there too. If the belts look slightly suspect, the water pump will get done too. Spending can spiral out of control. Whats prudent? I intend to keep the care for quite a while.

Lovel · 24th November 2018, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palma75

Thanks chaps, all input is welcome. I only want to do this job once so I shall look carefully at everything. People seem to change the water pumps and tensioners with the belts? Stretch bolts here and there too. If the belts look slightly suspect, the water pump will get done too. Spending can spiral out of control. Whats prudent? I intend to keep the care for quite a while.

Change the belts, water pump, tensioner while engine out of the car. Change thermostat pipes which come in a kit too with temp sensor

You can get complete INA timing belt kit at reasonable €110. This kit is original parts without the MGRover lable.. buy a genuine water pump from Rimmer bros which is not too expensive, and patch set screws for the pump too, or ensure you use Honda bond or similar (not silicone) sealer on the water pump screws.

However if I were you I would be following SD1too advice and doing a little more fault finding first.

Palma75 · 24th November 2018, 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lovel

Change the belts, water pump, tensioner while engine out of the car. Change thermostat pipes which come in a kit too with temp sensor

You can get complete INA timing belt kit at reasonable €110. This kit is original parts without the MGRover lable.. buy a genuine water pump from Rimmer bros which is not too expensive, and patch set screws for the pump too, or ensure you use Honda bond or similar (not silicone) sealer on the water pump screws.

However if I were you I would be following SD1too advice and doing a little more fault finding first.

Thanks Lovel,

I will of course follow SD's advice but the replacement motor is on the way. The one fitted, despite low miles appears to have been bodged around a bit, messily done silicone here and there, broken mounts on the airbox and a fair drop of oil has been flying around from somewhere. The motor listed on ebay was from a low milage accident damaged ZS. It looks good and I was concerned that it would be quickly snapped up. With that thinking, i had to make a snap decision on it. I intend to fit the replacement as it is a known runner. The KV6 that comes out will be most likely be a project for my son and I to repair.

Seen kits on ebay listing belt sets with a water pump? Are there NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD- pattern parts out there? Do I need to stick with Rimmer?

Going to be quite a few questions in the coming weeks, I reckon....

Lovel · 24th November 2018, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palma75

Thanks Lovel,

I will of course follow SD's advice but the replacement motor is on the way. The one fitted, despite low miles appears to have been bodged around a bit, messily done silicone here and there, broken mounts on the airbox and a fair drop of oil has been flying around from somewhere. The motor listed on ebay was from a low milage accident damaged ZS. It looks good and I was concerned that it would be quickly snapped up. With that thinking, i had to make a snap decision on it. I intend to fit the replacement as it is a known runner. The KV6 that comes out will be most likely be a project for my son and I to repair.

Seen kits on ebay listing belt sets with a water pump? Are there NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD-NAUGHTY WORD- pattern parts out there? Do I need to stick with Rimmer?

Going to be quite a few questions in the coming weeks, I reckon....

Avoid parts that come in plain poly bags, and have no makers names. Rimmers are best given that you are overseas but shop around and you will find the best which is INA as per original fit. Some stuff marked as genuine MGROVER isn’t as the supplier/manufacturer has changed over the years sometimes for the worse.

Unless you enjoy spending hours taking the timing belts and all ancillary equipment off again search for best value original parts made by INA, Gates etc.
Rimmers has good value genuine water pump, but their (Xpart) timing belt kits although stating genuine isn’t exactly true. Don’t get me wrong on Rimmers they are a lifeline to me over many years, are honest, trusting, and I support them a lot. For example if you look closely at the original fit roller tensioner and buy a new “genuine” from Xpart you will see the casting differences. Purchase an INA version and it is exactly the same. Btw they also have price matching against genuine offers in stock which works a treat.

24th November 2018, 09:23	#1
Palma75 Newbie Rover 75 saloon Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Palma Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	75 KV6 2.5 Engine replacement Hello All, I'm almost as new to big Rovers as I am to this group so thanks in advance for any help. I am in Mallorca and I recently bought a pretty mint non running 75 2.5 Club automatic. I was told that the engine is shot and it does not turn. Upon cranking, it makes a sound like a shot starter motor. I notice that when someone attempts to start the car, slight movement can be felt at the alternator belt. This belt looks very cracked and degraded so I assume that one of the cam belts has probably parted. I have a replacement low milage ZS KV6 on its way down to Mallorca from the UK. Its out of a manual car, however. I assume that I can just remove the torque converter from my car and fit it to the replacement engine. My questions are then: Can I simply change flywheel for torque converter? What electronic elements will i have to swap over to satisft the ecu Space looks very tight, whats the easiest way to get the engine in and out? I saw that Mr. Stocktake removed the slam panel etc. Are there any fatal pitfalls that can ruin the whole excercise? Many thanks in advance for any helpful input. Mark

24th November 2018, 09:51	#2
stocktake Vis Whiz Rover 75 2.5 auto Saloon Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: LEEDS Posts: 20,587 Thanks: 2,057 Thanked 3,056 Times in 1,621 Posts	Wow, that brings back memories. All existing electrics/harnesses used, watch out for crank sensor it was in a different position on the manual if I remember correctly. long time ago now but yes flywheel off, ring gear plate on. The torque converter stays in the gearbox bell and bolts up to the ring gear plate when the engine was in place, it only goes on in one position as the bolt pattern is not even. Check the sump is the same. I think the fitting for the lower engine mount was different. Dave... __________________ Dave... Lost a few stones and a Gall Bladder and part of a bile duct and all of my dignity in the suppository incident

24th November 2018, 10:00	#4
Palma75 Newbie Rover 75 saloon Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Palma Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thats a good start! Thanks Dave, I read a few of your posts and had hoped that you'd reply. So if I understand, I need to take off everything that was connected to the cars loom that I find on the original engine and refit them on the replacement engine? The sump is different because it has the engine mount fitted to it? Crank position sensor - that should be pretty self explanatory. I saw one of your post pictures that had the front panels removed. I'm not with the car right now but thats the standard way to go about the job? Looks very tight in there. Seriously, thanks a lot!

24th November 2018, 12:17	#7
Palma75 Newbie Rover 75 saloon Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Palma Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Long term reliability Thanks chaps, all input is welcome. I only want to do this job once so I shall look carefully at everything. People seem to change the water pumps and tensioners with the belts? Stretch bolts here and there too. If the belts look slightly suspect, the water pump will get done too. Spending can spiral out of control. Whats prudent? I intend to keep the care for quite a while.

24th November 2018, 12:05	#6
Lovel I really should get out more....... P6B, L550, Imp, F56, Commando Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 2,886 Thanks: 352 Thanked 677 Times in 440 Posts	Depending on the age of the KV6 engines: 1. You may find that the large alloy front timing cover may need to be changed out to be able to fit the 3 bolt mounting for your power steering pump. 2. The front and rear camshaft covers may need to be changed due to different mounting points for the coils. If you need to do this it is a good chance to clean the engine breathers out as most will be gummed up. Also for consideration: Change out the thermostat plastic pipes for new, ensure seats for o-ring landing area are smooth and clean and suitable for an o-ring to seal upon with no craters etc, and use molykote silicon grease on all o-ring surfaces upon fitting. Retorque the inlet manifold gaskets after some miles as over the engines life they begin to weep due to settlement.