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Old 13th March 2019, 19:00   #11
Lee T
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A member here had the symptoms you describe and the problem was a leaking high pressure fuel pump. May be worth a look around the pump with a torch when engine is running. Lee.
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Old 13th March 2019, 21:34   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellfire127 View Post
It is weird how it starts again after waiting a few minutes. When it first started doing this it was about a year ago, it was just once or twice in that time. the last three months the car has become unreliable as you never know if you are going to cut out or not. the strange thing is that it always starts again after a few minutes wait.

That happened with mine - then, over many months, it gradually got worse. When we got to the winter, it wouldn't start at all when cold.


Eventually took the ECM out - it was dry, but at some stage in the past clearly hadn't been (tide mark on the internal circuit board). Brian fixed it, as above.


No guarantee that's what you've got of course, but it sounds plausible, doesn't it...
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Old 14th March 2019, 10:46   #13
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It's almost certainly the ECM, it's not an uncommon problem.
The later NNN500340 ECM can intermittently cut out even with no obvious signs of water damage.
I've got some here that are prestige but can cut out, just as the op. has described.
The only solution I'm afraid is to fit a good replacement.
If the op gets in touch and sends the ECM to either myself or Brian we can supply a tried and tested replacement.

Russ
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Old 14th March 2019, 11:22   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marinabrian View Post
If the pollen filter was soggy, then the ECM has been wet

Take it out of it's casing take a look at the bottom of the PCB to see if there is evidence of corrosion specifically on the processor to the left of the AM400BT flash memory, and on the reverse of the board, again right at the bottom where there are three SMD resistors, and a transistor in a small group, a 15K 33K and a 3.3k.

The damage caused by water ingress can be instantaneous, however it can "ferment" over a few weeks, or even months.

When the car cuts out, turn the ignition off wait for 30 seconds, then turn it back to position 2 and see if the oil pressure warning lamp is lit, if not then the ECM is not being initialised, nor is it broadcasting on the CANBUS, and there will be no 12V present on the white wire with purple tracer on the UBP plug

If it is ECM related, I can sort it out easily enough

Brian
It did it again this morning 5 minutes into my journey, about the same point as the other day, so I took the opportunity to do Brians check. The Oil Pressure Lamp was illuminated so it is not doing that at least. Again, sat in the car for 5 minutes then it started. I found no amount of turning the engine over when it first cuts out will bring it to life, you just have to sit there, wait 5 mins, then turn the key.

Cheers



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Old 6th May 2019, 14:16   #15
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Smile Results of this.

I thought that I would come back and let you all know the outcome of my issue.

It seems that my issue was a compounding of issues some of them related.

After the original posts and suggestions from members, (thank you very much). I checked and cleaned the plenum drains. Although draining was slower than optimum, they were not completely blocked.

Over about three weeks I persevered with the car, continuing as it had, cutting out randomly, sometimes not for a few days, sometimes a few times a day.

One day, it would not start at all. I called AA and the chap went through his diagnostic procedure. He thought that the supply of fuel from the under bonnet fuel pipe was poor. He took out the rear seat, there was a small pool of diesel sitting in the pump well under the seat. It seems that the garage who replaced the in-tank pump, cut the black plastic pipe and because it was now too short, bodged on an extension which was leaking. The AA gent unscrewed and pulled out the pump only to find part of the pump float assembly was just flapping around in the tank. He put that back properly then fitted a proper extension to the fuel pipe. After doing this he went back round the front of the car and confirmed low-pressure fuel was being delivered, he noted my nearly brand new front fuel pump was noisy, great! The car still would not start, then the battery started to fail with all this engine turning over activity. Finally he squirted easy start into the intake, the engine tried to start. The AA gent concluded that the problem was on the high-pressure side of the fuel delivery.

The car was transported to a local garage where after a couple of days they diagnosed a high-pressure pump failure. They fitted a new one at great cost. The garage then phoned me and said to me they had good and bad news. The good news was that after the high-pressure pump was fitted the car started and ran straight away in the workshop. The bad news was that they took it on a road test during which the car broke down, belching smoke and sucking (they found later) engine oil through the engine and filling the intercooler. On the same phone call he suggested that at least one of the injectors must be blocked for this to happen, probably caused by the failing high-pressure pump. Now, he suggested a set of diesel injectors, ouch! I sourced these myself using Ebay from Latvia, of all places. The garage fitted the new injectors, the car ran fine and I picked it up.

Two weeks later it cut out again, albeit very briefly. This time I noticed a bit more detail. Straight after cutting out, if you moved the ignition key to position 1 you could not hear the fuel pump start even though the rest of the system had initiated, ignition, oil pressure and other lights that cycle on when you start the car. If I cycled the key between off and position 1repeatedly, not starting the starter motor after a few turns the pump(s) would come on, made easier by the noisy front pump, and you can start the car and move off.


So again, now being 2 months after my original post I again, checked the plenums, this time I took out ECU, cleaned connectors with contact cleaner and made and broke them a few times. Got out my solder iron and resoldered the connectors on the board and anything else that looked iffy. The ECU actually looked ok, none of the reported 'tide marks'. I put it all back together again and it has been fine ever since, (1 week has passed).

I now have a week of travelling so this will be the test. In the meantime, I have bought a Facelift Tourer, KV6, off another member as my old diesel is going on the automotive naughty step now for being a pain in the butt!

Thank god for AA BRC, it is the only way it was worth keep repairing the old diesel, time after time and take the pain out of the finances. I can definitely recommend it, if like me you are trying to keep a car going that normally would have been scrapped a couple of years ago. I have had a clutch & hydraulics, road springs, water pump, high-pressure diesel pump, brake calliper, all on AA BRC paying the first £500.00.

Cheers


Toby
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Old 9th May 2019, 16:15   #16
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Well ,,,,,, I can underline the plenum relationship as spot on.
My newly acquired Tourer has been serviced and other anomalies ironed out since I got her last Saturday and today I just left the house for a long weekend jaunt.
I just went around two corners near to home and up pops a nice fat E on the display and the car loses all power and refuses to pick up.
I manage to coast into a handy lay-by and turn off thinking what the hell now!!!
She would not restart just turn over.
I then remembered this very thread about cutting out and thought,, we’ve had a lot of rain today, let me have a look in the so far unchecked plenum,,,,,,Well knock me out!!! It was 3 inches deep, everything soaking wet!!!

I commenced to pull out the ECU and disconnect it, there is also a white box that was full of water!!!! This I gave a good shake out and dried it off as best I could, I found a sock in my luggage and used it to dry out the black box and wiring, then reconnected everything and said a prayer!
Well God must have been at home as the car fired up first time, no E on the dash and off I went to 50 miles without further issue except to say that the car drives so much smoother and acceleration has improved immensely.
I wonder if there has been some water issues all along causing rough running issues and intermittent power loss.

Suffice to say Clean Your Plenums Before Anything Else!!!
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Old 10th May 2019, 06:05   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellfire127 View Post

The car was transported to a local garage where after a couple of days they diagnosed a high-pressure pump failure. They fitted a new one at great cost. The garage then phoned me and said to me they had good and bad news. The good news was that after the high-pressure pump was fitted the car started and ran straight away in the workshop. The bad news was that they took it on a road test during which the car broke down, belching smoke and sucking (they found later) engine oil through the engine and filling the intercooler. On the same phone call he suggested that at least one of the injectors must be blocked for this to happen, probably caused by the failing high-pressure pump. Now, he suggested a set of diesel injectors, ouch! I sourced these myself using Ebay from Latvia, of all places. The garage fitted the new injectors, the car ran fine and I picked it up.

Two weeks later it cut out again, albeit very briefly.

Cheers


Toby
Whoever phoned you from the garage was talking nonsense.

Ford Mondeo diesels are well known for those types of HP pump/injector issues but not our cars.

Take up Russ's offer in #Post 13 and replace the ECM with a known good one before throwing any more money at it.
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Old 10th May 2019, 08:05   #18
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I read these posts with dispair sometimes. We have a great source of knowledge between the experts and experienced members, yet owners sometimes choose to just skimp over the advice given, despite Russ and Brian both saying that this is without doubt an ecu problem, they have seen these symptoms umpteen times over the years and using that experience they tell the op what to do to correct the problem ....
The AA man is great when you want a wheel changed or you have ripped the sump off in a field but aside from that a lot of them don't know these cars, a lot of garages haven't got a clue about them either unless it's changing brake parts or suspension, that's where this forum comes into its own.
Advice can only be given, and it's up to the op what they do with that advice, use it wisely or ....
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Old 10th May 2019, 08:30   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vossy View Post
…despite Russ and Brian both saying that this is without doubt an ecu problem, they have seen these symptoms umpteen times over the years and using that experience they tell the op what to do to correct the problem

Have to agree, having been one of said victims. I had a very similar problem (which makes sense, if you think about it, as it’s the same part of the ECM which usually gets a bath), but I suppose I was in denial that it really could be the ECM – HAD to be a dodgy connector or something somewhere.


To be fair to me, Your Honour, I had spent an undisclosed large sum on a local “diesel specialist” who diagnosed various things including a failed glow plug relay (these cars, it turns out, don’t even need their glow plugs).
Anyway, eventually got an exchange ECM from Brian – problem solved.
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Old 10th May 2019, 12:40   #20
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Just to follow up, in my defence, your honour. It is not always straight forward, The issues were multiple and complex, all of them having an impact, from the ECU, the failing HP pump and the bodged in tank fuel pump/float assembly and leaking connections. The AA guy discovered the puddle of diesel under the seat and he repaired the fuel pipe bodge, so I can see why he would direct his attention to those areas. The garage could see that fuel flow to the front of the car was adequate at best, then the HP side went, so I get why they concentrated on that area. Me, I just get to pay for it all.

The car now runs very well, especially when you consider I have just crossed the 215k miles! No noise and no smoke. Thanks to all who helped and yes, when my finances have recovered I will replace the ECU, I can live with it for now.


Cheers


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