1.8t hgf

[chipsceola]

Originally Posted by minimutly

I'm with Doc E on everything he says, your failure here is not an inherent fault with the "engine" maybe coolant, maybe gasket, but these thing regularly do 70k between issues...
If your liners are right height, use elastomer WITHOUT hylomar, drop in a Lower temp thermostat (is there one?), and you should be fine. If this fails you have a crack somewhere.

Mine was a standard 88C thermostat, purchased a complete PRT hose set with 82C stat last year, normal running temp is now 87/90 rather than average 96 degrees is operated at before. Mat at DMGRS has 82C PRT version in stock

[RodgerD]

Originally Posted by Doc Evil

Hi
1.4 blocks can be used but why the block should not be annealed it sits in a bath of coolant and will not suffer the same problem as a head if your engines came from the factory with low liners just fit shims to the liners
Elastomer gaskets will be fine but I am unsure of the blue Hylomar as I don't recall anyone who has used it in conjunction but it is good stuff so I understand your reasoning
Rover spent huge sums of money developing the metallurgy and design of the head bolt it allows the crank stresses to be dealt with by the sandwich taking the torque settings beyond 64nm will not apply any additional clamping force and changing the bolts to higher tensile ones and trying to apply more clamping force will stress the crankshaft
I certainly do agree with you on the fan should cut in much nearer the stat opening temperatures and I am looking to fit an aftermarket fan to the inboard side of the radiator this will give you a backup fan if the inboard fan dies and can be retro fitted to the nasp without any problems and without touching the existing, but unsure of the turbo as to space available. This will not be done until after the two experiments I am trialing have concluded
Significant annealing does not occur below 250'c which will not occur unless you loose coolant and continue to run the engine I would spend my money and time on making sure the cooling system is in peak condition and treat the parts like service items and replace on a regular basis, also open up the head casting flashing in the water ways to achieve a full unhindered flow I would also ditch the oat antifreeze
Improvements in engine bay airflow are a waste of time imho unless you are racing the car
In view of the low cost and ease of head gasket replacement I would recommend replacement at say 50k along with the timing belt and water pump as part of the service interval
I give you the above as advice and not criticism if you are going to try these things then fair play to you it's trial and error and experiments that enable us to keep the marquee going

Good luck

Doc

Coming from a world of development I see nothing wrong in looking at every option to see what works, never discount anything until its been tested. I have a mule that I will be using as a testbed so I don't mind if it gets pulled apart time and time again to anaylise whatever changes were made and how they fair. Part of the challenge is searching for the solution with a successful outcome rewarding.

Regarding the fan cutting in, I have been considering energising the fan when either the brakes peddle is applied or the handbrake, with a speed sensing circuit to ensure it does energise say above 10MPH via the brake/handbrake. The reason being the fan will always be operational when the car is stationary and running. To me it makes no sense allowing coolant to rise to 100+degrees C and then try to bring the temperature down. By bring the fan on say below 10 MPH coolant temperatures should remain closer to the thermostat temperature as the temperature will be governed by the thermostat and not the fan which will only bring the temperature down to about 96 degrees C, and the cycle up to fan kick-in temperature.

When the car is moving there is always airflow through the radiator, but when stationary coolant temperatures are allowed to rise 12 degrees C (for a 88 degree C thermostat) before airflow is restored though the radiator. 12 volt 16" fans are now very cheap (around £30) so even if they wear out sooner, it will be cheaper, and easier to change fans than rebuild engines.

The thinking regarding using Blue Hylomar is to apply a very thin coat to the elastomer, not the whole matting surface to provide a barrier so that anti-freeze doesn't come into direct contact with the elastomer and thus hopefully prevent the elastomer from rotting.

I know that Kaiser has flagged up the possibility the head bolts might not be torque sufficiently and I want to look at that aspect if only to discount it.

I agree with you that perhaps a HG change at a given service interval is probably the way to go, and of course a well maintained cooling system is a given.

[amblegrumpy]

A thousand thanks to you kindly souls who provided me with the solution to my engine failure - it was indeed the separation of the two parts of the fuel filter, identical in fact to the picture provided by Marina Brian in his response. Wanting to test the car out without waiting for an orange clip, I used the judiciously placed self tapper option he suggested.
The old gal started first turn of the key, ran sweetly and even the shiny thing appeared in the sky (a most rare occurrence here in Amble) as if in celebration......
Since I'm here, I'd like to ask you undoubted experts about the so-called head gasket problems encountered on these vehicles. As you may recall, whilst looking for the car I was subject to the OMG/HG scenario from several different sources, including my sort of step son-in-law who is the sort of being who can find considerable humour from the misfortunes of others, thus owns and runs a garage.
But I went ahead anyway, contrary old bar-steward that I am.
My 1.8 has done 37k. Now, to me anyway, it is a given that a head gasket will eventually fail on more or less any engine so it would not surprise me should mine eventually go, but past experience tells me that if I treat the car gently (I keep the revs to a Max of 3200 in all gears), check all appropriate levels a couple of times week, keep an eagle eye for the appearance of any 'gunge' on the oil filler cap, dipstick and header tank cap (at the time of writing both caps are clean as whistles) and flush it out twice a year (spring and autumn) then surely there should not be a problem outside of what one should expect.
Nevertheless, I am certainly old enough, and hopefully wise enough to recognise the fact that these stories, rumours or 'old wives tales', call them what you will, often have a basis in fact and I have the uncomfortable feeling that I've overlooked something in my reasoning regarding said 1.8 HG.
If so, what?
All the best.....

[Doc Evil]

Originally Posted by amblegrumpy

A thousand thanks to you kindly souls who provided me with the solution to my engine failure - it was indeed the separation of the two parts of the fuel filter, identical in fact to the picture provided by Marina Brian in his response. Wanting to test the car out without waiting for an orange clip, I used the judiciously placed self tapper option he suggested.
The old gal started first turn of the key, ran sweetly and even the shiny thing appeared in the sky (a most rare occurrence here in Amble) as if in celebration......
Since I'm here, I'd like to ask you undoubted experts about the so-called head gasket problems encountered on these vehicles. As you may recall, whilst looking for the car I was subject to the OMG/HG scenario from several different sources, including my sort of step son-in-law who is the sort of being who can find considerable humour from the misfortunes of others, thus owns and runs a garage.
But I went ahead anyway, contrary old bar-steward that I am.
My 1.8 has done 37k. Now, to me anyway, it is a given that a head gasket will eventually fail on more or less any engine so it would not surprise me should mine eventually go, but past experience tells me that if I treat the car gently (I keep the revs to a Max of 3200 in all gears), check all appropriate levels a couple of times week, keep an eagle eye for the appearance of any 'gunge' on the oil filler cap, dipstick and header tank cap (at the time of writing both caps are clean as whistles) and flush it out twice a year (spring and autumn) then surely there should not be a problem outside of what one should expect.
Nevertheless, I am certainly old enough, and hopefully wise enough to recognise the fact that these stories, rumours or 'old wives tales', call them what you will, often have a basis in fact and I have the uncomfortable feeling that I've overlooked something in my reasoning regarding said 1.8 HG.
If so, what?
All the best.....

Hi and welcome to the club

I am glad you got your car sorted Marinabrian certainly knows his stuff and is a proper old school Engineer who has helped many people out

Regular checks are the key to long and trouble free motoring along with a regular maintenance programme, one of the key problem areas is the plastic inlet manifold and it's gasket these seem to be one of the main reasons for coolant leaking and imho should be replaced by the MGF alloy one.
You seem to be sensible enough to realise that these cars need regular checks and maintenance this is not just a Rover thing, the modern car engine is a completely different animal to the old cast iron lumps of the past, new lightweight, super efficient engines of today's world seem to be full of inherent problems and are certainly not designed with longevity in mind, this appears to be indicative of the car manufacturers throw away mentality as long as they get the sale and it lasts 5 years that's good enough as their customer base typically replace their car after two or three years, in that time of course the car is faultless
So in summary keep up the good work of regular checks have the car regularly maintained and be prepared to replace your head gasket and other items sometime in the future obviously costs are considerabley cheaper if you can carry out your own work

Happy Rovering

Doc

[RodgerD]

Originally Posted by Doc Evil

Hi and welcome to the club

I am glad you got your car sorted Marinabrian certainly knows his stuff and is a proper old school Engineer who has helped many people out

Regular checks are the key to long and trouble free motoring along with a regular maintenance programme, one of the key problem areas is the plastic inlet manifold and it's gasket these seem to be one of the main reasons for coolant leaking and imho should be replaced by the MGF alloy one.
You seem to be sensible enough to realise that these cars need regular checks and maintenance this is not just a Rover thing, the modern car engine is a completely different animal to the old cast iron lumps of the past, new lightweight, super efficient engines of today's world seem to be full of inherent problems and are certainly not designed with longevity in mind, this appears to be indicative of the car manufacturers throw away mentality as long as they get the sale and it lasts 5 years that's good enough as their customer base typically replace their car after two or three years, in that time of course the car is faultless
So in summary keep up the good work of regular checks have the car regularly maintained and be prepared to replace your head gasket and other items sometime in the future obviously costs are considerabley cheaper if you can carry out your own work

Happy Rovering

Doc

Congratulations on getting your stead up and running, she will give you many years of happiness as you travel the trails together.

As Doc Eivl has said, look at replacing the inlet manifold with an all aluminum one, these are known as VVC manifolds. Ideally you want the latest version known as a MEMS 3 manifold.

I would also pay particular attention to the cooling fan, all have their own issues, earlier 3 speed fans wear out the low and medium speed brushes, these fans are normally fitted to earlier cars ( pre 2004 ish), with a 2 speed fan fitted post 2004 ish. Two speed fans utilise a resistor to achieve the lower speed. This resistor blows resulting in only the high speed working which cuts in at a higher coolant temperture. This resistor can be changed for an uprated version, known as the gold resistor. A newer Roetec fan is available as a kit to convert cars fitted with the older 3 speed fans.

Personally I'd check the coolant level before I used the car, or get a coolant level indicator fitted the indicates if it needs topping up and needing attention, these indicators usually have a warning light or buzzer.

BTW the temperature gauge stays static at the 9 o'clock position from 75-115 degrees C and shouldn't be relied upon. Consider fitting a digital gauge which gives an accurate readout.

[kaiser]

No doubt the fire ring has been corroded in places.
I have taken the antifreeze 100%, the 50% af+water, pure water and air, and filled four jars with those individual mixtures and each a blue nail, a normal nail and a pop-rivet and placed them on the cupboard with a date on each. This will eventually tell me how effective the AF is.
In the meanwhile I have taken a magnet to the fire ring, it is magnetic, thus not SS and it can then rust.
I am trying to get a Payen gasket, but there might not be any stock.
Any stockist on here can give me an e-mail. I would look for MSL and be really happy if the fire rings are made of SS!!
Until further notice I can't trust the Victor Reinz HG or Chemical Convertor made antifreeze, although it really smells like the right stuff.

[RodgerD]

Originally Posted by kaiser

No doubt the fire ring has been corroded in places.
I have taken the antifreeze 100%, the 50% af+water, pure water and air, and filled four jars with those individual mixtures and each a blue nail, a normal nail and a pop-rivet and placed them on the cupboard with a date on each. This will eventually tell me how effective the AF is.
In the meanwhile I have taken a magnet to the fire ring, it is magnetic, thus not SS and it can then rust.
In the meanwhile I am trying to get a Payen gasket, but there might not be any stock.
Any stockist on here can give me an e-mail. I would look for MSL and be really happy if the fire rings are made of SS!!
Until further notice I can't trust the Victor Reinz HG og Chemical Convertor made antifreeze, although it really smells like the right stuff.

Wouldn't it be worth repeating the test with 4 sections of the flame ring to see what rate the corrosion occurs. Of course combustion gases might have got passed the flame ring and helped create a toxic mix which has accelerated the corrosion process.

[beinet1]

Originally Posted by kaiser

No doubt the fire ring has been corroded in places.
I have taken the antifreeze 100%, the 50% af+water, pure water and air, and filled four jars with those individual mixtures and each a blue nail, a normal nail and a pop-rivet and placed them on the cupboard with a date on each. This will eventually tell me how effective the AF is.
In the meanwhile I have taken a magnet to the fire ring, it is magnetic, thus not SS and it can then rust.
In the meanwhile I am trying to get a Payen gasket, but there might not be any stock.
Any stockist on here can give me an e-mail. I would look for MSL and be really happy if the fire rings are made of SS!!
Until further notice I can't trust the Victor Reinz HG og Chemical Convertor made antifreeze, although it really smells like the right stuff.

This seller has one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-MGF-...item4ae540a1ac

He does ship internationally, but you have to quote him for shipping. I have bought a few Payen BW750 elastomer gaskets from him earlier.

[kaiser]

Originally Posted by RodgerD

Wouldn't it be worth repeating the test with 4 sections of the flame ring to see what rate the corrosion occurs. Of course combustion gases might have got passed the flame ring and helped create a toxic mix which has accelerated the corrosion process.

That is not a bad idea, but I am keeping the gasket intact, until I get an answer from the manufacturer of the antifreeze.
In the meanwhile I have had a reply from Victor Reinz, where they state they cannot do a fault analysis based on the pictures I sent. However they claim it should work if the head is straight and the liners protrude and the correct torque sequence is followed. I have written back and asked if they don't use SS, which I have meanwhile found out they don't!

In the meanwhile, another gasket and another antifreeze seems the safest way

And thanks for the link, I will first see if one is available locally.

[WillyHeckaslike]

Corrosion of the fire rings looks like the cause of the failure to me and possibly due to cavitation, electrolysis or a combination of both. Personally I don't think that it is a good idea to use the coolant as an earth return, more so where IAT antifreeze is used in preference to OAT.

Edit: Is the jiggle valve clean and functioning?