A chipped but is it a replacement engine ECU or not, what do you think?

Keith · 27th September 2007, 15:48

I probably could have thought of a more obscure title but ..........

Billnick came to see me today for a Testbook session on his way back home to the North East. He bought Matts lovely BRG Saloon that was for sale a while ago.

Once on T4 a couple of weird things presented themselves, firstly T4 could not talk to his FBH which made extracting fault codes from the car a bit more involved than usual, the FBH can be a bit funny on the K bus plus this car has a Telephone based Telestart which may be the culprit so I wasn't too concerned about that.

What caught my eye was Testbook reported his Engine ECU as not being correctly coded and with an incorrect Vin number, to us perhaps this is interesting, we all believe we can't fit a second hand ECU to our cars because the car won't start as the engine and immobilser ECUs won't match and you can't code a previously coded ECU to the car.

Now this car has been remapped I believe by Upsolute so I expected T4 to possibly offer to reflash the ECU back to standard as not all remaps are truly invisible despite the claims by the suppliers and therefore I expected something to show up but not an incorrect Vin Number.

Normally Vin and ZCS Codes are correct but other checks on the Engine ECU that Testbook automatically does throws up warning messages that something is amiss

In Bills car the engine ECUs ZCS codes were all Zeros and the Vin number relates to a 2003 CDT Tourer (checked on the EPC) certainly not a 2001 CDT Saloon!

Taking a stab in the dark maybe Upsolute write a standard ECU map which includes a default Vin rather than downloading each cars ECU Map, changing just the bits that matter then rewriting it.

What I find baffling is if that is the case why does he not have an immobiliser related problem, i.e why does the car run with what to it must be an alien ECU?

Fortunately Sworks gave me an ECU to play with at the Holker meet
I might be Brave and plug it in to the Tourer I am fixing and see what happens once I have it all back together again.

How this may have happened is a mystery and hopefully Bill will contact Matt to see if the car has had a replacement ECU
It would also be worth him dropping a line to Upsolute to ask if the remap contains a default Vin code as that would then make sense

sworks · 27th September 2007, 18:06

I recall seeing different vin numbersin ecu's in a few cars a long time ago. T4 would just say there was a mismatch ecu and would request a retune. Never thought much about it other than the factory entered the info incorectly! If you have problems communicating with a system try a different way, a general search through all systems or just a sub system test

pondweed · 27th September 2007, 18:15

arent there a few other upsolute cars in the club that could help get to the bottom of...?
Interesting development to knowledge of how it all works though...

Keith · 27th September 2007, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by sworks

I recall seeing different vin numbersin ecu's in a few cars a long time ago. T4 would just say there was a mismatch ecu and would request a retune. Never thought much about it other than the factory entered the info incorectly! If you have problems communicating with a system try a different way, a general search through all systems or just a sub system test

That is exactly what is happening a bit odd isn't it and yes because the FBH was playing silly bu****s I resorted to subsystem tests to read the fault codes from each ECU which was a bit of a pita!

Might shoot my plan to use the ECU you gave me in the foot to try and get the thing to request ZCS codes though!

Cheers again anyway

Greeners · 27th September 2007, 19:05

Just had a quick browse on their web site, and certainly looks the part. http://www.upsolute.com/eng/main.html

They've got 2 distributors in the UK.

I'm going to contact them to see if they can help with getting my cruise control up and running.......

billnick · 27th September 2007, 21:33

Hi Keith, First of all thanks to you and your good wife for the coffee and biscuits, and the use of the T4, got back ok and have read your post regarding ECU, so have emailed Matt to try and get some answers, will keep you updated.
regards bill.

JohnDotCom · 28th September 2007, 12:07

Keith i have that remap and although you originally had a problem communicating, it didn't say wrong ECU number or anything as far as i remember.
We can run mine through again when i get back to check if you like.

mattl · 28th September 2007, 12:40

The car to the best of my knowledge has not had a new ecu.

Whilst i owned the car it had been on testbook a few times with no problems. The first time was under my supervision when i got a mate to rest the service interval indicator. No problems then! I think this was before the remap.

The 2nd time was for the spare key, i cant recall if this was before or after the remap. Bill has the receipts for both items of work i believe. He definately has the receipt for the key, which could then be checked against my report on the .org site. But again no problems reported back to me.

Im sure the comms with the fbh is due to the telestart, although it did have a brand new fbh and pump under my ownership, which i fitted.

mattl · 28th September 2007, 12:41

Just to add Simon Coe did the remap and removed the ecu and removed the chip and reflashed it and then resoldered it and refitted the ecu. He keeps all of the customers old maps to be able to return to standard if required.

Keith · 28th September 2007, 15:17

Hi Matt

That's interesting I had no idea they took the chip out I thought it was all done via the OBD port

That probably explains what I noticed though, chances are they use a default map hence the odd Vin number but that map is also suitably reworked not to upset the immobiliser etc unless that side of the ECUs operation is held in a different chip so not affected.

Otherwise Simon would have to edit each individual ECU map and that would take a while.

You can see where this is leading me, has Simon unknowingly developed a way that could allow the re use of second hand ECUs, as that would be worth knowing?

27th September 2007, 15:48	#1
Keith This is my second home ZT400 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ellesmere Posts: 5,948 Thanks: 0 Thanked 43 Times in 29 Posts	A chipped but is it a replacement engine ECU or not, what do you think? I probably could have thought of a more obscure title but .......... Billnick came to see me today for a Testbook session on his way back home to the North East. He bought Matts lovely BRG Saloon that was for sale a while ago. Once on T4 a couple of weird things presented themselves, firstly T4 could not talk to his FBH which made extracting fault codes from the car a bit more involved than usual, the FBH can be a bit funny on the K bus plus this car has a Telephone based Telestart which may be the culprit so I wasn't too concerned about that. What caught my eye was Testbook reported his Engine ECU as not being correctly coded and with an incorrect Vin number, to us perhaps this is interesting, we all believe we can't fit a second hand ECU to our cars because the car won't start as the engine and immobilser ECUs won't match and you can't code a previously coded ECU to the car. Now this car has been remapped I believe by Upsolute so I expected T4 to possibly offer to reflash the ECU back to standard as not all remaps are truly invisible despite the claims by the suppliers and therefore I expected something to show up but not an incorrect Vin Number. Normally Vin and ZCS Codes are correct but other checks on the Engine ECU that Testbook automatically does throws up warning messages that something is amiss In Bills car the engine ECUs ZCS codes were all Zeros and the Vin number relates to a 2003 CDT Tourer (checked on the EPC) certainly not a 2001 CDT Saloon! Taking a stab in the dark maybe Upsolute write a standard ECU map which includes a default Vin rather than downloading each cars ECU Map, changing just the bits that matter then rewriting it. What I find baffling is if that is the case why does he not have an immobiliser related problem, i.e why does the car run with what to it must be an alien ECU? Fortunately Sworks gave me an ECU to play with at the Holker meet I might be Brave and plug it in to the Tourer I am fixing and see what happens once I have it all back together again. How this may have happened is a mystery and hopefully Bill will contact Matt to see if the car has had a replacement ECU It would also be worth him dropping a line to Upsolute to ask if the remap contains a default Vin code as that would then make sense

27th September 2007, 18:06	#2
sworks This is my second home Rover 75 Tourer, Classic mini Cooper S, Abarth 595 competizione, MG TF and a Hyundai Tucson PHEV Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cumbria Posts: 13,084 Thanks: 1,033 Thanked 1,686 Times in 1,040 Posts	I recall seeing different vin numbersin ecu's in a few cars a long time ago. T4 would just say there was a mismatch ecu and would request a retune. Never thought much about it other than the factory entered the info incorectly! If you have problems communicating with a system try a different way, a general search through all systems or just a sub system test __________________ ................................................. 'Marmite' Possibly one of the most famous 75 tourers produced! left the production line as the last of only Three Rover 75 tourers produced in Trophy Yellow. 48 hours later Longbridge closed. The last sold ordered 75 Tourer. Paid for by the Phoenix Four and handed over by John Towers to the Warwickshire Northampton Air ambulance service as a Rapid Response vehicle

27th September 2007, 19:05	#5
Greeners Moderator MG-ZTT Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 19,798 Thanks: 161 Thanked 1,249 Times in 1,036 Posts	Just had a quick browse on their web site, and certainly looks the part. http://www.upsolute.com/eng/main.html They've got 2 distributors in the UK. I'm going to contact them to see if they can help with getting my cruise control up and running....... __________________ *David* Impecunity is the mother of ingenuity Useful how to's for common problems Car Of The Month Jan 2014 [SatNav Power Down] [Coolant Level] [SatNav Repair] [Diesel Non Starting] [Paint Codes] [Rear Light Seals] [Reversing Light Switch] [Bleeding Brakes][Sunroof Drain] [Early ZT's][Instrument Pack Diagnostics][ATC Diagnostics]

27th September 2007, 18:15	#3
pondweed This is my second home Waiter, Waiter! I seem to have a Roomster in my drive... Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sussex Posts: 3,268 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	arent there a few other upsolute cars in the club that could help get to the bottom of...? Interesting development to knowledge of how it all works though...

27th September 2007, 21:33	#6
billnick Loves to post ex 75 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Abergele Posts: 445 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Keith, First of all thanks to you and your good wife for the coffee and biscuits, and the use of the T4, got back ok and have read your post regarding ECU, so have emailed Matt to try and get some answers, will keep you updated. regards bill.

28th September 2007, 12:07	#7
JohnDotCom * Rover 75 FaceLift Tourer CDTi 170BHP Auto ConnSE 2005 Model Starlight Silver Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Abergele Posts: 28,735 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Keith i have that remap and although you originally had a problem communicating, it didn't say wrong ECU number or anything as far as i remember. We can run mine through again when i get back to check if you like.

28th September 2007, 12:40	#8
mattl Avid contributor MG ZT260 SE Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Solihull Posts: 162 Thanks: 16 Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts	The car to the best of my knowledge has not had a new ecu. Whilst i owned the car it had been on testbook a few times with no problems. The first time was under my supervision when i got a mate to rest the service interval indicator. No problems then! I think this was before the remap. The 2nd time was for the spare key, i cant recall if this was before or after the remap. Bill has the receipts for both items of work i believe. He definately has the receipt for the key, which could then be checked against my report on the .org site. But again no problems reported back to me. Im sure the comms with the fbh is due to the telestart, although it did have a brand new fbh and pump under my ownership, which i fitted.

28th September 2007, 12:41	#9
mattl Avid contributor MG ZT260 SE Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Solihull Posts: 162 Thanks: 16 Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts	Just to add Simon Coe did the remap and removed the ecu and removed the chip and reflashed it and then resoldered it and refitted the ecu. He keeps all of the customers old maps to be able to return to standard if required.

28th September 2007, 15:17	#10
Keith This is my second home ZT400 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ellesmere Posts: 5,948 Thanks: 0 Thanked 43 Times in 29 Posts	Hi Matt That's interesting I had no idea they took the chip out I thought it was all done via the OBD port That probably explains what I noticed though, chances are they use a default map hence the odd Vin number but that map is also suitably reworked not to upset the immobiliser etc unless that side of the ECUs operation is held in a different chip so not affected. Otherwise Simon would have to edit each individual ECU map and that would take a while. You can see where this is leading me, has Simon unknowingly developed a way that could allow the re use of second hand ECUs, as that would be worth knowing?