Government petition condeming diesel car penalties. - Page 12

steady eddie · 14th August 2014, 06:59

Signed up last Sunday but no confirmation email

Roverite · 14th August 2014, 11:41

378 today.

Before I started this petition, I E-mailed the Prime Minister regarding this subject, plus my disappointment at the slow progress on the EU question and that UKIP will get my vote next time.

Initially, I started to receive Conservative propaganda E-mails, to which I unsubscribed. Then yesterday I received a 3 page letter from the Political Correspondence Manager at No 10, with "I was sorry to hear about your concerns" and "We respect people who voted UKIP at recent elections, .............Of course, Conservatives voting for UKIP, or any other party, can only increase the likelihood of a Labour Government......". The rest of the letter was extolling the achievements of David Cameron and the Conservatives.

No other attempt was made to answer my specific problems, but what is more infuriating is that I wrote to the Prime Minister, not the Conservative party. The whole letter was designed to turn a negative (my complaint), into a positive. There is just no getting through to these people, I am not sure they even breathe the same air as I do.

Needless to say, I shall complain again, with copies to my local Labour and Conservative MPs, whilst also asking why they wasted money on a First Class letter, instead of a free E-mail, and why they used three sheets of paper, instead of double sided printing.

Roverite.

Roderick · 14th August 2014, 12:17

Couldn't agree more. Signed petition.
As we are not yet Rover 75 owners but getting closer to owning one, a diesel is our first choice. As existing FIAT Croma diesel owners in Italy and having experienced big problems with EGR valves etc etc recently, it is the EU causing problems by forcing manufacturers to install all this jiggery pokery stuff to cut emissions. However, the amount of fuel we have had to expend (and cause more exhaust) than really necessary returning several times to get things fixed plus being told to go for regular 30minute runs up and down the autostrada to keep the DPF clean is mind boggling!
One of the appeals of the 75 diesel is its comparative 'simplicity' – no DPF and a mechanical EGR. The CDT version having 163gms CO2 is only 2 more than the Croma at 161gms.
Sorry, for ranting on about a side issue.
Still want a diesel this coming autumn though...

Snagger · 14th August 2014, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverite

378 today.

Before I started this petition, I E-mailed the Prime Minister regarding this subject, plus my disappointment at the slow progress on the EU question and that UKIP will get my vote next time.

Initially, I started to receive Conservative propaganda E-mails, to which I unsubscribed. Then yesterday I received a 3 page letter from the Political Correspondence Manager at No 10, with "I was sorry to hear about your concerns" and "We respect people who voted UKIP at recent elections, .............Of course, Conservatives voting for UKIP, or any other party, can only increase the likelihood of a Labour Government......". The rest of the letter was extolling the achievements of David Cameron and the Conservatives.

No other attempt was made to answer my specific problems, but what is more infuriating is that I wrote to the Prime Minister, not the Conservative party. The whole letter was designed to turn a negative (my complaint), into a positive. There is just no getting through to these people, I am not sure they even breathe the same air as I do.

Needless to say, I shall complain again, with copies to my local Labour and Conservative MPs, whilst also asking why they wasted money on a First Class letter, instead of a free E-mail, and why they used three sheets of paper, instead of double sided printing.

Roverite.

Much as I applaud your attempt to take action Roverite, I'm afraid it's all in vain.

Just as the Ugov vote petition that garnered enough online numbers to discuss and force a vote for a referendum on E.U. membership, it will be easily brushed aside, defeated in the house by those who claim to represent you , yet clearly voted, against one.

The whips were busy on both sides, their duplicity perfectly clear.

Your response from the so called "Prime Ministers" office is nothing short of a blanket response, displaying nothing other than the sheer contempt Parliamentarians of any colour, have had, and continue to harbor and display,toward the British people, and the Parliament they have defiled, since being led by the judas goat and traitor Heath, into the EEC in 1972.

The European Communities Act 1972 is pretty clear.:-

http://www.leeds.ac.uk/law/hamlyn/european.htm

http://www.spanishlegal.co.uk/essay.htm

The truth now, for those that would not hear it, and are prepared to hide behind the lies that they are prepared to believe and propagate, on behalf of these criminal flim flam spivs.

Any party adhering to any of the above, is not representative, or acting on behalf of, those it has openly deceived to not only gain office, but criminally abuse that office, purposefully, and with obvious intent of receiving and implementing instructions from an alien entity,( that, which was not billed ,papered, presented, voted on, passed to the lords and processed into Law by a standing member of Parliament ), illegally granted power over it, moreover not with , the fully informed consent of the British people.

They therefore have broken their covennant with, and do not represent us any longer by default, of their position.

They have surrendered their responsibilities to those that should not have, and deserve even less, any power of governance over the U.K.whatsoever.

You now only vote for who are effectively, only regional governers and admin men, serving the new East German Stasi styled socialist Empire, known as the E.U.

If you want out of it, and your Parliament and country returning to you, you will have to vote for those that do not advocate treacherous subservience, in preference to governance, that means not any of the two traitors parties you have in the past believed, and voted for.

There is only one way to cast it, if you want your country, and it's Parliament returning to you.

Snagger.

Rickoshea · 14th August 2014, 14:25

Roverite,

I am as shocked and disturbed are you appear to be, that the Prime Minister did not personally respond to your email as a matter of priority and was so upset, I nearly signed your petition!

I saw common sense pretty quickly though when I realised that would mean supporting the use of a dirty European fuel on UK roads and fervently hope that Nigel and his mates will completely band the dreadful stuff when elected as our next government.

topman · 14th August 2014, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverite

but what is more infuriating is that I wrote to the Prime Minister, not the Conservative party.

I think that is harsh, I don't think the PM has enough hours in the day to reply to every letter sent to number 10.

Roverite · 15th August 2014, 08:19

395 votes today, the end of week one.

Snagger, above, has said it all and far better than I could.

I would like to point out that I didn't expect the PM to reply to me personally, but I did expect a 'Government' reply, not a 'Conservative' reply. It is not right that the Prime Minister of the day should be able to use the publicly funded No 10 'Admin' facility to promote the Conservative party.

Some of the comments suggest that I am wasting my time and that is probably true, but we only have ourselves to blame. Us Brits are always moaning, but we seldom do anything about it. The UK belongs to us and this is my feeble contribution.

Finally, those thinking that banning diesels is a good idea, think on, because these proposals actually apply to petrol vehicles as well. The point of my petition is that it is unfair to citizens who made an informed decision and paid good money to do so, for that decision to then lead to financial persecution. I wonder what would happen if older houses were condemned because of a lack of thermal efficiency and the owners were faced with big bills, or possibly demolition? But the motorist; they will just accept it.

The rhetoric from the anti diesel brigade does make me wonder just how pure their own lives are.

Roverite.

Roverite · 16th August 2014, 08:44

399 votes this morning.

At least two magazines have placed the details on their 'social media' sites and my letter to the Telegraph Motoring section is published today. However, they have redacted the 'link' and the other two letters published are from the 'kill diesels' brigade. They make the usual sweeping statements that applied to diesels in the 1950s and 60s, whereas the modern diesel is extremely clean, very efficient and with very low CO2 emissions; nothing like a good old prejudicial rant to stir their readers though, not that they will worry about the cost of upgrading to another new car.

Roverite.

Rickoshea · 16th August 2014, 12:05

Roverite,

I fear you are still perpetuating untruths. Firstly, I suspect the only informed decision made by those in diesel cars was to save money both in terms of fuel costs and taxation. It might produce less CO2 but this is not a pollutant, it is a natural by-product of life on earth. The down side is they produce lots of very nasty NO2 and particulates. No amount of euro 5, 6, 7 or 8 will alter the basic physics of burning this dreadful stuff in anything less than optimal conditions i.e ships, trains, and long distant lorries.

I did consider diesel as I did when I bought our 75 in 2001! Always came to the same conclusion that they are wrong for stop start motoring and lots of short journeys. Rational eco decision is get a petrol! We live in Greater London and this means we get free use of the trains, underground and busses so our annual expenditure on petrol is around £1,000.

Interesting you mention housing! To prove my green credentials, we live in a 4 bed detached house with solid walls and was very expensive to heat. I realised that in retirement and therefore at home a lot of the time, lady wife would probably not put up with my old excuse that cold is good for you. I have therefore insulated the house with external insulation as well a stuffing the roof with over a foot of fibreglass. Also installed a new gas boiler. The house has moved from an energy rating of G, the worst to B - second best!. Better still the annual combined gas and electricity bill is around £750 which is not bad for a 2,000 square foot detached house set on a hill inhabited 7 days per week! Better still, I installed PV panels when the government introduced FIT (Feed In Tariffs). We get paid for very KWH we produce and the annual income from our 3 kilowatt array is £1,600 a year that is tax free and index limited and guaranteed for the next 22 years! This ensures that our total energy costs of minus £850 pa!

I agree with you that those in energy inefficient houses should be stuffed by the tax system and perhaps you would like to share your green credentials with us. (having a diesel is a negative!)

egremont · 16th August 2014, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roverite

You are probably aware of EU proposals, supported by Boris Johnson, plus the three main political parties, to price older diesels and pre 2006 petrol cars off the road. There are 35 million motorists in the UK and many of us feel that this is just another knee jerk revenue raiser, plus an aid to further 'New Car Sales'. The problem is that there is no single body fighting our corner.

Therefore, I have started an E-petition on the Government website, which, if a certain number of signatures are reached, will force a Government debate.

The link is:- http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/68377

There are at least three 'Topics' already on here, covering this subject, with most subscribers agreeing that it is unfair. If you agree with the wording of my petition, I would be grateful if you would sign it, to show your support. It would also be helpful if you could pass the link to like minded friends and colleagues.

Roverite.

“The problem is that there is no single body fighting our corner”.
Oh Colin! Do you not have a body of enthusiasts that can put your point of view to your government? There must be a few million motoring enthusiasts in the U.K. that will be affected. Imagine the clout that such a body of clubs could have. It is so easy for governments to disregard individuals and small groups - when there is no common mouthpiece. But when united into one body, they do listen. Our local club has an AOMC representative who reports back to us at our monthly meetings. And it is easier for the government and its departments to work with a single unified presentation.
You may like to look at the following web site for our AOMC here in the state of Victoria. It is the body that represents most, if not all motoring clubs in this state when dealing with our government.
http://www.aomc.asn.au/whatis.htm
The Association of Motoring Clubs Inc. is a not for profit organisation established in 1976 and comprises over 200 member clubs and represents some 45,000 vehicle enthusiasts here in Victoria, Australia. The Association is run by volunteers and is a member of the National body that represents members throughout Australia.

If you do not have a similar set-up in the U.K, I am sure that out AOMC, or even our national organisation, Australian Historic Motoring Federation Inc. would be pleased to pass on suggestions to form your own national body.
Best of luck with your endeavour.

egremont.

14th August 2014, 12:17	#113
Roderick Loves to post Rover 75 CDT Connoissuer SE Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Hereford Posts: 273 Thanks: 161 Thanked 100 Times in 47 Posts	Petition signed Couldn't agree more. Signed petition. As we are not yet Rover 75 owners but getting closer to owning one, a diesel is our first choice. As existing FIAT Croma diesel owners in Italy and having experienced big problems with EGR valves etc etc recently, it is the EU causing problems by forcing manufacturers to install all this jiggery pokery stuff to cut emissions. However, the amount of fuel we have had to expend (and cause more exhaust) than really necessary returning several times to get things fixed plus being told to go for regular 30minute runs up and down the autostrada to keep the DPF clean is mind boggling! One of the appeals of the 75 diesel is its comparative 'simplicity' – no DPF and a mechanical EGR. The CDT version having 163gms CO2 is only 2 more than the Croma at 161gms. Sorry, for ranting on about a side issue. Still want a diesel this coming autumn though...

14th August 2014, 14:25	#115
Rickoshea Loves to post Jaguar I Pace Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Surbiton Posts: 342 Thanks: 10 Thanked 74 Times in 47 Posts	Roverite, I am as shocked and disturbed are you appear to be, that the Prime Minister did not personally respond to your email as a matter of priority and was so upset, I nearly signed your petition! I saw common sense pretty quickly though when I realised that would mean supporting the use of a dirty European fuel on UK roads and fervently hope that Nigel and his mates will completely band the dreadful stuff when elected as our next government. __________________ Miss the 75

16th August 2014, 12:05	#119
Rickoshea Loves to post Jaguar I Pace Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Surbiton Posts: 342 Thanks: 10 Thanked 74 Times in 47 Posts	Roverite, I fear you are still perpetuating untruths. Firstly, I suspect the only informed decision made by those in diesel cars was to save money both in terms of fuel costs and taxation. It might produce less CO2 but this is not a pollutant, it is a natural by-product of life on earth. The down side is they produce lots of very nasty NO2 and particulates. No amount of euro 5, 6, 7 or 8 will alter the basic physics of burning this dreadful stuff in anything less than optimal conditions i.e ships, trains, and long distant lorries. I did consider diesel as I did when I bought our 75 in 2001! Always came to the same conclusion that they are wrong for stop start motoring and lots of short journeys. Rational eco decision is get a petrol! We live in Greater London and this means we get free use of the trains, underground and busses so our annual expenditure on petrol is around £1,000. Interesting you mention housing! To prove my green credentials, we live in a 4 bed detached house with solid walls and was very expensive to heat. I realised that in retirement and therefore at home a lot of the time, lady wife would probably not put up with my old excuse that cold is good for you. I have therefore insulated the house with external insulation as well a stuffing the roof with over a foot of fibreglass. Also installed a new gas boiler. The house has moved from an energy rating of G, the worst to B - second best!. Better still the annual combined gas and electricity bill is around £750 which is not bad for a 2,000 square foot detached house set on a hill inhabited 7 days per week! Better still, I installed PV panels when the government introduced FIT (Feed In Tariffs). We get paid for very KWH we produce and the annual income from our 3 kilowatt array is £1,600 a year that is tax free and index limited and guaranteed for the next 22 years! This ensures that our total energy costs of minus £850 pa! I agree with you that those in energy inefficient houses should be stuffed by the tax system and perhaps you would like to share your green credentials with us. (having a diesel is a negative!) __________________ Miss the 75

14th August 2014, 06:59	#111
steady eddie Loves to post rover 75 tourer / bmw e90 320d Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Swindon Posts: 255 Thanks: 256 Thanked 48 Times in 24 Posts	Signed up last Sunday but no confirmation email

14th August 2014, 11:41	#112
Roverite Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Telford Posts: 1,083 Thanks: 653 Thanked 307 Times in 159 Posts	378 today. Before I started this petition, I E-mailed the Prime Minister regarding this subject, plus my disappointment at the slow progress on the EU question and that UKIP will get my vote next time. Initially, I started to receive Conservative propaganda E-mails, to which I unsubscribed. Then yesterday I received a 3 page letter from the Political Correspondence Manager at No 10, with "I was sorry to hear about your concerns" and "We respect people who voted UKIP at recent elections, .............Of course, Conservatives voting for UKIP, or any other party, can only increase the likelihood of a Labour Government......". The rest of the letter was extolling the achievements of David Cameron and the Conservatives. No other attempt was made to answer my specific problems, but what is more infuriating is that I wrote to the Prime Minister, not the Conservative party. The whole letter was designed to turn a negative (my complaint), into a positive. There is just no getting through to these people, I am not sure they even breathe the same air as I do. Needless to say, I shall complain again, with copies to my local Labour and Conservative MPs, whilst also asking why they wasted money on a First Class letter, instead of a free E-mail, and why they used three sheets of paper, instead of double sided printing. Roverite.

15th August 2014, 08:19	#117
Roverite Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Telford Posts: 1,083 Thanks: 653 Thanked 307 Times in 159 Posts	395 votes today, the end of week one. Snagger, above, has said it all and far better than I could. I would like to point out that I didn't expect the PM to reply to me personally, but I did expect a 'Government' reply, not a 'Conservative' reply. It is not right that the Prime Minister of the day should be able to use the publicly funded No 10 'Admin' facility to promote the Conservative party. Some of the comments suggest that I am wasting my time and that is probably true, but we only have ourselves to blame. Us Brits are always moaning, but we seldom do anything about it. The UK belongs to us and this is my feeble contribution. Finally, those thinking that banning diesels is a good idea, think on, because these proposals actually apply to petrol vehicles as well. The point of my petition is that it is unfair to citizens who made an informed decision and paid good money to do so, for that decision to then lead to financial persecution. I wonder what would happen if older houses were condemned because of a lack of thermal efficiency and the owners were faced with big bills, or possibly demolition? But the motorist; they will just accept it. The rhetoric from the anti diesel brigade does make me wonder just how pure their own lives are. Roverite.

16th August 2014, 08:44	#118
Roverite Posted a thing or two Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Telford Posts: 1,083 Thanks: 653 Thanked 307 Times in 159 Posts	399 votes this morning. At least two magazines have placed the details on their 'social media' sites and my letter to the Telegraph Motoring section is published today. However, they have redacted the 'link' and the other two letters published are from the 'kill diesels' brigade. They make the usual sweeping statements that applied to diesels in the 1950s and 60s, whereas the modern diesel is extremely clean, very efficient and with very low CO2 emissions; nothing like a good old prejudicial rant to stir their readers though, not that they will worry about the cost of upgrading to another new car. Roverite.