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Old 7th May 2019, 16:36   #11
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Old 7th May 2019, 16:39   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madeupname View Post
Very interesting.
One of my old workmates left us to become a driving instructor. I had noticed drivers not indicating had started to become more frequent so I asked him why this was happening. He said that they now teach drivers not to indicate if there's no reason to. ie, no other traffic.
I said I thought this was wrong because it gets new drivers into the habit of NOT indicating, instead of the habit OF indicating. He wasn't impressed.
I just wonder if these instructors will now be sued by drivers who have been fined for not indicating?

The Advanced Driver take on this is that you should only indicate when it would serve someone to see the indication. They say if you always indicate it becomes a habit to signal, but it doesn't force you to make the observation to determine whether it might be necessary.


My personal take on this is that I always indicate and always make sure I observe fully - you can never be completely certain your observation might have missed someone and it takes so little effort to give a proper indication.



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Old 7th May 2019, 17:07   #13
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On today's busy roads, to indicate is considerate, helps traffic flow, reduces frustration, and helps prevent accidents. When was the last time you saw a bus pull out of a bus stop without indicating? As said above, indicating is purely to indicate your intentions, to help others to assess the hazard level. I learnt to drive when it was "Mirror, indicate, maneoevre." If I see a car indicate to move out, whether from a parking place on an urban street, or changing lanes on a motorway, I can make a decision to slow slightly or move over (after checking and indicating), and thereby help someone to make a safe manoeuvre. What causes more frustration, making 20 cars lose 3 seconds, or making one car wait a minute? I suspect the latter. If you think the former, time you got up earlier, or learned to relax.
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Old 7th May 2019, 18:55   #14
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Its all very well, but you need police "on patrol" to actually enforce it.

Or will this be another case of big brother cameras are watching - that should be a nice easy way to extract money from motorists, but will do nothing to ride us of all the unregistered vehicles and track bikes that are currently being used illegally used on our roads.
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Old 7th May 2019, 19:28   #15
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As a driving instructor for 20 years, now early retired.

We followed the highway code. Indicate if it will help or warn other road uses. Nobody there, don't need to signal.

I personally used to say to my pupils. If moving off from the side of the road, a signal wouldn't be needed. However , watch for pedestrians in front who may want to cross the road. However, if you were trying to join a slow moving que of traffic, a signal will let them know you are wanting to join the que. Someone may let you move out in front of them.
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Old 7th May 2019, 19:49   #16
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Old 7th May 2019, 22:15   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macafee2 View Post
ok sorry I thought "you" indicated. why sit there waiting and waiting for traffic to pull past? Indicate to pull out and no doubt someone will let "you" out. Indicating only "states your intention"

macafee2
It was explained to me that it interrupts traffic flow.
The traffic already on the road has right of way etc.
And yes, of course we normally let traffic join in, whether from the kerb or a side street. I didn't make the rule, I was just taught it.
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Old 8th May 2019, 05:33   #18
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In those circumstances, without signalling your intention, you could be sat waiting for ages because nobody would realise you wanted to join the que.

Slightly off topic, there is another one I personally come across quite a lot.

I retired early, but I do help out at a friend's pizza shop by doing deliveries a few evenings a week. I often park across people's driveways, knowing that I won't be there for longer than a few minutes. The grief and abuse I receive sometimes is unbelievable. People complain that have no intention of actually going in or out of their drive.

I have to point out the rules from the highway code. If you follow it to the letter, basically it says avoid blocking driveways. But it does not say "you must not". So it's not actually law. People's property boundaries are their gate, they do not own the road, or have any more rights to it than me.

Now there's a debate for you lol
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Old 8th May 2019, 07:23   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macafee2 View Post
Andy, "you" assume there is no one to receive because "you" have not seen the person. It will take longer to study the area to make sure there is no one around. How far away does someone have to be to be classed as not around?

Advanced drivers are taught to read the road ahead. There is a car on the left side of the road, facing same direction as your travel some distance ahead with no lights on, you cant see any movement, you cant see any exhaust "smoke". You make a judgement.

Consider the judgement.

Now consider the judgement if you can see their right indicator flashing.

Is it exactly the same judgement?

I'm sure there will be two opinions on the subject, those in favour of always indicating which I am one and those that believe no point if no one around.

we will agree to differ, with me of course being right

macafee2

That's the whole point.

Advanced drivers/riders take information from as far away as possible in all directions.

Information covers everything that can be seen/heard and must then be processed into degrees of "what might reasonably happen" next.

In your first scenario it's reasonable to make a judgement that the car is parked.

So you're looking behind (hazard = mirror check - you might need an escape route) looking past it and planning your path around it.

Information - Parked car - probably. Anything behind you? What's on/in the road ahead - vehicles/junctions/school entrance etc. Anyone who you can give information to - Another road user? Indication?

Position - adjust to pass the car - giving as much space as possible just in case there's say, someone in the car you can't see who opens a door. Maybe there's an engine problem (which is why there's nothing from the exhaust) and the bonnet release is on the passenger's side so the driver is "lying" across the front seats to reach it and will almost certainly not do a mirror check before throwing their door open to get out to have a look.

Speed - depends upon oncoming traffic/space (brakes are for slowing, gears are for going).

Gear - depends upon any speed change.

Acceleration - if needed (arrive with grace, leave with pace) depends upon the......current/new Information.

Information changes split second by split second and the process is adjusted to suit.

Your second scenario is much more complex.

Think of the possibilities:

Indicating and just pulling off regardless (someone of the mindset that indicating gives them the right to just do it)?
Indicating and doing a U turn?
Indicating and have seen you and are waiting for you to pass?
And possibly several more.

How do you control your vehicle? Particularly considering an escape route, road position and speed????

Andy.

Last edited by AndyN01; 8th May 2019 at 14:48.. Reason: Clarity
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Old 8th May 2019, 07:47   #20
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