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Old 7th March 2019, 10:05   #21
Lancpudn
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Originally Posted by jackatesme View Post
I don't think crime has gone down,it's people not reporting a crime that has gone down,as they feel it is pointless. So i feel it is essential that the police are told about anything that you witness and insist that it is noted. Perhaps then someone can give Mrs May a slap across the back of the head and say look at these figures.



I used to report stuff before the police cuts but I honestly find it pointless if they aren't/cant going to do a thing about it, I don't even bother getting a insurance number from them either because our insurance excess has gone through the roof.


They want a £500 minimum excess payment for any claim (used to be £50), the barstewards have been putting my front windows in, (four in the last few years) and two break ins, I don't put a claim in because I can get a leaded double glazed window made for £175 and fit it myself.


It's getting to the point is it worth having insurance any more!!! I'm already paying over the odds for car insurance because of my postcode so that's why I don't report it, it's become self defeating regarding higher & higher insurance premiums through no fault of honest people.
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Old 7th March 2019, 10:15   #22
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That would be a positive move TM

With Prisons being little more than Universities of Crime - why send stupid people there? Better to put them to work for Societies benefit rather than deficit.

That won't be a positive move at all.


The first duty of any government is to protect it's citizens.

The whole point of prison is :-

1) To remove from society those who are causing harm or loss to others

2) Punishment for actions

3) And last, rehabilitation if the first two criteria have been met and there is any money left to do so.


I've never understood why murderers for example get ( in some cases as little as 9 or 10 years in jail) any sentence that actually allows them out of jail after a certain time with the proclamation of 'I've done my time the slate is wiped clean'

No it's not they're still murdering scumbags whose victims will never be able to enjoy rejoining society and life again and their families will have to live thinking about their lost loved ones for ever whilst witnessing the murderer strolling about the locale after release enjoying themselves in pubs and restaurants and wherever else they want to enjoy themselves, their presence almost taunting the bereaved family.


I'm absolutely fed up of those who advocate not locking up the scumbags in society who are ruining things for the rest of us. Get them in jail and away from decent society now and keep repeat offenders there for good.

As regards cost, there can be no cost too great for protecting the rest of decent society and it must be worth pointing out how much the criminal element are costing us all in increased insurance, security and replacement of stolen or damaged goods never mind the emotional trauma of having an encounter with these peoples actions.


The suggestion that those given a sentence of under a year should not go to prison is perhaps the most ludicrous thing that I have heard even from the liberal lefty idiots who appear to be totally oblivious to the equation between .... the increasing liberalisation of non existent or weaker sentencing of criminals out on the streets and rising crime


Lock em all up and keep them locked up.
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Old 7th March 2019, 10:20   #23
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Watching the news last night,one lady came up with the statement. People are not bothered to report any incident to the police.
There i think is the crux of the problem and why Mrs May thinks that we do not need more police on the street.
When someone reports an incident and doesn't get any response because the police force have not got the resources,they think why bother. That is the view of many people in my locality.
I may be wrong,but i am trying to spread the word to report anything that you see or feel is not right,report it to the police.
Maybe then the elitist few will become aware of the troubles around the country. And Downing Street will not be, the only safe street in the U.K.
I may have not written this well,but i think you will grasp what i mean,and it will help to stop the downward spiral of this country.
Rant Over.
A fine example of this I posted a couple of weeks back. The coach got vandalised and the driver was assaulted. Not only were the yobs throwing bricks at him, he was physically attacked by about 5 or 6 louts, and when he called the police, they refused to attend quoting , " your life is not in danger" Well excuse me, nut what part of being assaulted and having bricks hurled at you , consitutes no threat to lif ? Ffs! I followed this up with work, when I was in on Monday, asking if they had complained to South Yorkshire police. No was the reply, what's the point, they ain't going to do anything, with us not being local.
I rest my case with whst John's o p states.
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Old 7th March 2019, 10:57   #24
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Lots in the news recently about shocking figures of knife crime and the number of deaths of young people as a result. Everybody is screaming about it being caused by ‘the cuts’ and that the obvious solution is ‘more funding’.

One (BBC) news bulletin showed a graph of the falling number of officers from around 220,000 to the present guesstimate of around 200,000 since 2010. Then they superimposed another graph onto the first which showed the number of violent deaths had followed more or less the same pattern. So, the assumption is that fewer officers have had no effect on the number of violent deaths. Therefore both ‘the cuts’ and the number of officers are irrelevant. Make your own mind up.

Unless of course yet another aspect of gang war has started, probably for drug merchandising/distribution and the operators are not scared of being caught as it is unlikely. Surprising how these young entrepreneurs catch on to a good thing isn’t it. They’ll be up for election soon. Oh, just a minute....

Whilst I will never ever do anything other than deride the incompetent hopeless entity that is the Labour party even I have to admit that they increased Police numbers significantly up to about 142,000 from 127,000 nationally, the highest number on record during their reign of tyranny and darkness between 1997 and 2010.


Since 2010 the Cons ( and their Lib Dim allies ) set about reducing that number by 21,000 down to about the current 120,000.

Unfortunately significantly lower than your estimate of 200,000.
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Old 7th March 2019, 11:08   #25
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That would be a positive move TM

With Prisons being little more than Universities of Crime - why send stupid people there? Better to put them to work for Societies benefit rather than deficit.
Hopefully so, should have been done years ago. We'll have to wait and see. A lot more to do of course, won't do the trick on its own but a step in the right direction.
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Old 7th March 2019, 13:58   #26
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Here is a copy of something I posted almost a year ago on another site.

Thought it might add to the discussion here:

IMHO politicians do things reasons which are generally connected to getting themselves elected/re-elected; not necessarily what is for the best for the majority.

I do like Spock - The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

I also feel we do not place enough emphasis/weight on personal decisions and actions carry personal consequences.

Totally agree that it's a massively complex subject.

Our society seems to bring everything down to a financial value. So who is more of a "criminal"? The individual who steals £50 worth of goods from a shop or the big business who evades several million pounds in tax or the Government who allows tax "loopholes" to remain in place for others to "use" to avoid paying what "the many" consider to be "right?"

What is it that stops us from whizzing down the road at a ton+?

I've do it for miles on two wheels, two up in Germany. It was my decision based on the road and traffic conditions at the time. The speed didn't kill me. There was no harm done to anyone. Going much slower would probably have put us in more, rather than less danger as we were simply going with the flow of the traffic. And yes, there were some travelling much, much quicker.

So why not here?

Because our laws say we don't. There are consequences if we get CAUGHT.
(Current addition - no Police = no one to catch you!)

Presumably the idea is that the consequence acts as a deterrent which, in turn, informs the choice of the individual.

What happens if the chances of getting caught are minimal and the consequences are perceived to be minimal?

How about a few hundred pound fine for a millionaire? Is that realistically going to apply "pressure" to the choice?

I fully accept that our prisons are overcrowded. Which begs the question is prison an effective deterrent IF so many are willing to take the risk of ending up there.

Perhaps we need to consider an alternative?

Maybe, since we seem to bring everything back to a financial value, there needs to be a financial "sentence" and this is not to be paid back at £0.50 a week for the next ten years.

Maybe prison could become some sort of community service where you lose your freedom and "work" to pay off your debt to society? You leave when your debt is paid. If that takes decades then so be it.

So, for the sake of argument, carrying a knife is a minimum of a £1000 penalty.

There is no maximum for any offence - the amount is set after determining the "wealth" of an individual. So our millionaire may have a penalty of £750,000 to create an effective deterrent for them.

You will go to "prison" and "work" at, say, the minimum wage for the benefit of society until the penalty is paid off.

Your choices, your actions, consequences for you.

Radical? Probably but the current system doesn't appear to be effective.

Andy.

Last edited by AndyN01; 7th March 2019 at 14:03..
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Old 7th March 2019, 14:48   #27
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Originally Posted by bendrick View Post
That won't be a positive move at all.


The first duty of any government is to protect it's citizens.

The whole point of prison is :-

1) To remove from society those who are causing harm or loss to others

2) Punishment for actions

3) And last, rehabilitation if the first two criteria have been met and there is any money left to do so.


I've never understood why murderers for example get ( in some cases as little as 9 or 10 years in jail) any sentence that actually allows them out of jail after a certain time with the proclamation of 'I've done my time the slate is wiped clean'

No it's not they're still murdering scumbags whose victims will never be able to enjoy rejoining society and life again and their families will have to live thinking about their lost loved ones for ever whilst witnessing the murderer strolling about the locale after release enjoying themselves in pubs and restaurants and wherever else they want to enjoy themselves, their presence almost taunting the bereaved family.


I'm absolutely fed up of those who advocate not locking up the scumbags in society who are ruining things for the rest of us. Get them in jail and away from decent society now and keep repeat offenders there for good.

As regards cost, there can be no cost too great for protecting the rest of decent society and it must be worth pointing out how much the criminal element are costing us all in increased insurance, security and replacement of stolen or damaged goods never mind the emotional trauma of having an encounter with these peoples actions.


The suggestion that those given a sentence of under a year should not go to prison is perhaps the most ludicrous thing that I have heard even from the liberal lefty idiots who appear to be totally oblivious to the equation between .... the increasing liberalisation of non existent or weaker sentencing of criminals out on the streets and rising crime


Lock em all up and keep them locked up.
I agree with all that you say - I think you misunderstand/I did not make myself clear - as to who I suggest should not go to prison.

It is prison sentences of less than a year that seem to breed harder criminals rather than be the “shock” that puts someone off offending again.

For the hardened criminals/serious crimes what you say is spot on. Throw away the key IMO.

But for someone who gets sentenced to a few weeks or months ? - they haven’t been removed from society but we do put them in a “school” of criminals who teach them an antisocial lifestyle.

Best to keep them out of that toxic environment
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Old 7th March 2019, 15:38   #28
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We need jails on the same level as Russia, and sentences that fit the crime.
Couldn't agree more.
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Old 7th March 2019, 19:44   #29
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Originally Posted by bendrick View Post
Whilst I will never ever do anything other than deride the incompetent hopeless entity that is the Labour party even I have to admit that they increased Police numbers significantly up to about 142,000 from 127,000 nationally, the highest number on record during their reign of tyranny and darkness between 1997 and 2010.


Since 2010 the Cons ( and their Lib Dim allies ) set about reducing that number by 21,000 down to about the current 120,000.

Unfortunately significantly lower than your estimate of 200,000.

Yes, you are right, figures were wrong but in my defence the reduction was a similar amount, a reduction of 20,000. It must be remembered the country was skint following your reference to 'reign of tyranny and darkness'! That sort of confirms the generally held belief that the judicial system is under attack from all sides.

The whole thing is skewed towards a softening of treatment for the criminal. It seems whenever prison reform is studied by the committees, consisting largely of society worthies, they start from the standpoint of leniency.

Murderers get 15 years. The sentence was once hanging, then 25 years then 20. But make the right noises inside and you are out after eight.

Halving of sentences is an everyday thing, and drug dealers, who possibly lead to more than one death and a colossal amount of secondary crime and misery, get a slap on the wrist. If they go to jail, increasingly unlikely as police now frequently ignore cannabis, they are in a place where all kinds of drugs are prevalent. What kind of message is that.

Prisoners are released early to avoid overcrowding which leads to so called ‘inhuman treatment’ by smartypants lawyers. There then follows cries of by ‘build more jails’ at incredible cost to the country through inflated contracts. Somebody needs to get a grip.
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Last edited by wraymond; 7th March 2019 at 19:49..
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Old 7th March 2019, 20:15   #30
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It surprises me that no one mentions this on the forum given the members' generally strong views in relation to lawlessness.

I suspect capital punishment was partly responsible for the low prison population in the old days.

What are the members' views on capital punishment being brought back for serious crimes i.e. the crimes that would currently receive a sentence of say 10 years or above?
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