It's Official - Bones Needs An Engine. - Page 6

tantallon · 5th February 2019, 18:51

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-mg-zr...946?nav=SEARCH

Bogbrush82 · 5th February 2019, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by tantallon

Perhaps an apology to the garage for their correct diagnosis of an engine failure and a refund for the incorrectly diagnosed starter motor would be the first course of action .

Thankfully not necessary, as they refitted the original Starter Motor and I never questioned their original diagnosis.

Many thanks for the link BTW. I've put it on watch. Just got to find a way to get back here from Bristol now. 🙂

Sent from my H8216 using Tapatalk

tantallon · 5th February 2019, 19:25

Glad you weren't charged for starter .If you need a vehicle to pick up the engine .I would gladly loan you one .Unfortunately I have too much on at the moment to fetch it for you .Try Palletline they are cheap enough .

Lovel · 5th February 2019, 19:31

A friend of mine had this occur three years ago with his k-series MGTF, allowing a leaking coolant system to eventually get diluted to a level where it froze and the timing belt jumped. He let me have the car for nothing.

The failure was confusing as the engine would turn forward say 270deg then would turn back 270deg before a solid clunk, and I couldn’t get the engine in position to confirm if timing marks had indeed slipped or lined up. Before it came to me my friend had been trying to tow start, no much wonder the tyres had flat bits on them, the poor thing was just so abused throughout its life.

After removing the head we replaced two broken exhaust valves with second hand valves, there were a few indentations on the piston heads but nothing serious. With a new head gasket and threw it back together not being fussy at all, my son drove it for perhaps more than 30k miles trouble free before punting it onwards at approx 150k. You know this the engine may have been one of the most neglected I had seen in my life, but it went really well and was very smooth and despite being a 1.6 I could not tell the difference between it and a 1.8.

marinabrian · 5th February 2019, 20:47

Pull the head off, replace the bent valves, and box it back up

The head isn't warped, it will cost a head gasket, and a few hours labour, and better than fitting yet another engine to this car.

Brian

macafee2 · 5th February 2019, 21:02

what parts do you need? I have a duff 1.8 engine, no idea if the head is any good.
would if be of any use to you? I'm in the process of scrapping the car.

a working engine for £100 is not to be sneezed at

pm me if interested

macafee2

Bogbrush82 · 5th February 2019, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinabrian

Pull the head off, replace the bent valves, and box it back up

The head isn't warped, it will cost a head gasket, and a few hours labour, and better than fitting yet another engine to this car.

Brian

Worth a try. The going rate for a full set of 16 valves inc postage seems to be about 50 quid, and I can always get a HG from DMGRS.

I'll let you know how I get on.

WillyHeckaslike · 5th February 2019, 23:33

A coolant mix containing 10% antifreeze I think might be the minimum recommended for anti-corrosion protection and for use during the warmer months only. On the 1.8 and in round figures I think 10% antifreeze equates to about 500ml (a small carton of milk) and the freezing point of such a coolant mix is about -3c.

I have read of other events of this nature. In one case the belt did not jump any teeth but the water pump was rendered useless when the press-fit bond between its shaft and frozen impeller was broken as the engine turned. I can't remember if the engine fired up but it will have quickly overheated if so without a working water pump. I would remove your pump and inspect it and I'm not sure that I would be happy to reuse a timing belt that has been forced to jump some teeth.

Regards SLS head gaskets, I do believe that it was not unknown for Rover to reuse them in the factory when the K-series was being developed. I am not suggesting that anyone should do the same.

marinabrian · 6th February 2019, 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillyHeckaslike

A coolant mix containing 10% antifreeze I think might be the minimum recommended for anti-corrosion protection and for use during the warmer months only. On the 1.8 and in round figures I think 10% antifreeze equates to about 500ml (a small carton of milk) and the freezing point of such a coolant mix is about -3c.

I have read of other events of this nature. In one case the belt did not jump any teeth but the water pump was rendered useless when the press-fit bond between its shaft and frozen impeller was broken as the engine turned. I can't remember if the engine fired up but it will have quickly overheated if so without a working water pump. I would remove your pump and inspect it and I'm not sure that I would be happy to reuse a timing belt that has been forced to jump some teeth.

Regards SLS head gaskets, I do believe that it was not unknown for Rover to reuse them in the factory when the K-series was being developed. I am not suggesting that anyone should do the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bogbrush

regarding sets of valves for £50, what if there is only a couple damaged?

A timing belt is fifteen quid, there will not be 16 bent valves, so inspection first purchase afterwards, and any head gasket of the type with crush rings for sealing the combustion gasses cannot be reused ever.

Water pump will be unlikely to be damaged, if it is stalled with the impeller being encased in ice, to the point the static belt timing is disturbed, the only precaution really required is the belt.

Head gasket HERE

Timing belt HERE

Exhaust valves HERE

Inlet valves HERE

There have been a lot of knee jerk reactions to this, without investigation, in terms of the original garage diagnosing a seized engine, well that is not the case at all.

So in summing up this car can be sorted out quite easily, and satisfactorily with a few hours spent by a competent person.

The head needs to come off, there will be witness marks on the piston crowns where valves have contacted, and probably bent, if not broken valves.

This is not the end of an engine by any means, however this job can be completed at a reasonable cost, and you will still have a known quantity....ie if a secondhand engine is sourced, what guarantee do you have that it hasn't been a problem in the past?

The case in point being Dawn bought this engine in good faith from a "specialist Rover breaker" as a good one, when in fact it was in need of rebuild.

Better the devil you know

I would still suggest recovering the car to Terry at TS Autos would be the best bet, at least then you know the work will be carried out to a decent standard, instead of paying for mobile mechanics opinions, or worse still having cowboys telling you a new engine is required due to it being seized, I'll bet a pound to a pinch of salt the timing wasn't checked

Brian

macafee2 · 6th February 2019, 10:04

David,
how are you going to proceed? I have your pm. I can remove the head, it looks to be quite time consuming as I have never done it before but I need your assurance if I remove the head and the head is good you will take it. Seeing previous posts are you going to remove your existing head and have that looked at and perhaps replace any bent valves? Would you like to try having your head looked at first? I'll still have the car I suspect for a couple of weeks so I'm not about to get rid of the car.

macafee2

5th February 2019, 19:31	#54
Lovel I really should get out more....... P6B, L550, Imp, F56, Commando Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 2,886 Thanks: 352 Thanked 677 Times in 440 Posts	A friend of mine had this occur three years ago with his k-series MGTF, allowing a leaking coolant system to eventually get diluted to a level where it froze and the timing belt jumped. He let me have the car for nothing. The failure was confusing as the engine would turn forward say 270deg then would turn back 270deg before a solid clunk, and I couldn’t get the engine in position to confirm if timing marks had indeed slipped or lined up. Before it came to me my friend had been trying to tow start, no much wonder the tyres had flat bits on them, the poor thing was just so abused throughout its life. After removing the head we replaced two broken exhaust valves with second hand valves, there were a few indentations on the piston heads but nothing serious. With a new head gasket and threw it back together not being fussy at all, my son drove it for perhaps more than 30k miles trouble free before punting it onwards at approx 150k. You know this the engine may have been one of the most neglected I had seen in my life, but it went really well and was very smooth and despite being a 1.6 I could not tell the difference between it and a 1.8. Last edited by Lovel; 5th February 2019 at 19:35..

5th February 2019, 18:51	#51
tantallon Gets stuck in ROVER 75 SALOON Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Peterborough Posts: 597 Thanks: 386 Thanked 316 Times in 144 Posts	https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-mg-zr...946?nav=SEARCH

5th February 2019, 19:25	#53
tantallon Gets stuck in ROVER 75 SALOON Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Peterborough Posts: 597 Thanks: 386 Thanked 316 Times in 144 Posts	Glad you weren't charged for starter .If you need a vehicle to pick up the engine .I would gladly loan you one .Unfortunately I have too much on at the moment to fetch it for you .Try Palletline they are cheap enough .

5th February 2019, 20:47	#55
marinabrian MG ZT Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne Posts: 20,151 Thanks: 3,565 Thanked 10,837 Times in 5,718 Posts	Pull the head off, replace the bent valves, and box it back up The head isn't warped, it will cost a head gasket, and a few hours labour, and better than fitting yet another engine to this car. Brian

5th February 2019, 21:02	#56
macafee2 This is my second home Rover 75 Saloon & Tourer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Lincoln Posts: 14,925 Thanks: 1,630 Thanked 3,032 Times in 2,181 Posts	what parts do you need? I have a duff 1.8 engine, no idea if the head is any good. would if be of any use to you? I'm in the process of scrapping the car. a working engine for £100 is not to be sneezed at pm me if interested macafee2

5th February 2019, 23:33	#58
WillyHeckaslike This is my second home Rovers 75 & 25 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Wearside Posts: 4,522 Thanks: 543 Thanked 709 Times in 511 Posts	A coolant mix containing 10% antifreeze I think might be the minimum recommended for anti-corrosion protection and for use during the warmer months only. On the 1.8 and in round figures I think 10% antifreeze equates to about 500ml (a small carton of milk) and the freezing point of such a coolant mix is about -3c. I have read of other events of this nature. In one case the belt did not jump any teeth but the water pump was rendered useless when the press-fit bond between its shaft and frozen impeller was broken as the engine turned. I can't remember if the engine fired up but it will have quickly overheated if so without a working water pump. I would remove your pump and inspect it and I'm not sure that I would be happy to reuse a timing belt that has been forced to jump some teeth. Regards SLS head gaskets, I do believe that it was not unknown for Rover to reuse them in the factory when the K-series was being developed. I am not suggesting that anyone should do the same.

6th February 2019, 10:04	#60
macafee2 This is my second home Rover 75 Saloon & Tourer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Lincoln Posts: 14,925 Thanks: 1,630 Thanked 3,032 Times in 2,181 Posts	David, how are you going to proceed? I have your pm. I can remove the head, it looks to be quite time consuming as I have never done it before but I need your assurance if I remove the head and the head is good you will take it. Seeing previous posts are you going to remove your existing head and have that looked at and perhaps replace any bent valves? Would you like to try having your head looked at first? I'll still have the car I suspect for a couple of weeks so I'm not about to get rid of the car. macafee2