Oh right cheers Mandleson!

[Telferstr]

Originally Posted by e668ecp

I'd have rather it be given to them than wasted on overseas aid / pointless wars! Your taxes and mine are in effect paying LDV workers to sit on the dole when they'd rather be building vans which create wealth for the country

Quite. And when one considers the many many many of Billions of Pounds thrown at the Banking System, even £1Billion to put MG Rover back on it's feet, would have been a mere flea bite in comparison to what has been going on in recent times with the Banking System. It would also have had a dramatic effect on the overall employment situation and retained skills that are now lost for ever.
Regards,
Telfer.

[FredSpencer]

Originally Posted by TheSaint

Governments shouldn't distort the marketplace by interfering - it's seldom worked in the past and won't work now or in the future.

Come on, you must be kidding! Governments do all sorts of things in 'the marketplace'. Whether it be regulating, giving money or just putting in a good word there is plenty of interference. There's more than a suspicion that some of it isn't even legal (defence contracts with foreign governments spring to mind).

The truth is they don't care about the man in the street; whether he has a job; whether he can pay his mortgage; they just massage figures till they say what the government want. Then they ......oh, I'll leave it there. I can feel my blood pressure going through the roof! Bring back Guy Fawkes, all is forgiven!

[allegroman]

Originally Posted by FredSpencer

Come on, you must be kidding! Governments do all sorts of things in 'the marketplace'. Whether it be regulating, giving money or just putting in a good word there is plenty of interference. There's more than a suspicion that some of it isn't even legal (defence contracts with foreign governments spring to mind).

And, to my mind the 'free market' is frankly an unpleasant concept, thought up by Milton Friedman, who for example stated that a company doing any more than the legal minimum in terms of pollution control was practicing 'pure socialism'. The 'free market' gives yet more power and profit to multinational corporations.

As I understand it, the German government takes an interest in their car industry. They still have one. The French definitely take an interest. They still have one.

[Telferstr]

Originally Posted by TheSaint

I don't like my taxes being spent there either, but that doesn't mean they should be spent on such things as saving MG/Rover or LDV. Business is business - it either survives or fails depending upon sales and efficiency - Governments shouldn't distort the marketplace by interfering - it's seldom worked in the past and won't work now or in the future.

Mmmmmm So by the same token, you expect the Banking System to completely collapse soon?
No I cannot agree with you there. When you are down to your last home owned volume car producer going under, a good Government must and should have taken action to save it. I do not accept the argument that MG Rover could not have been made a good and profitable company. A good management team, properly focused could have made it an outstanding success. Instead we have growing unemployment with the knock on effects closing down many smaller supply companies as they are all gradually going to the wall. Tax Payers money, properly used, under strict supervision, is sometimes an absolute necessity to ensure long term future for an industry, as is done under disguise in France and many other EU countries.
When you have a Government paying out £186Billion in general handouts but only taking in £140Billion in Income Tax we are well on the way to national Bankruptcy. The Banking Sytem has collapsed, we have a mere shadow left of our former industries, so where are we going to generate the required wealth to fund the nation. Now there is the big question!!!
Regards,
Telfer.

[FredSpencer]

Originally Posted by TheSaint

Have re-read my posts and can't see where I said that the Government DIDN'T interfere with the marketplace - I said they SHOULDN'T

And where would we be if they didn't? The banks are in the mess they are because of too little interference (regulation). I hate to think what it would be like if they took no part at all. Their problem is that they get it wrong so much. Not enough interference with the banks, too little support for industry and willing to do anything that they think will keep them a 'world player' in the defence industry.

[ardvark]

When MG Rover went bump there was a trust fund set up for us workers. I dare say the trustees of the fund made a living out of it, what I want to know is how much is left and how much with each worker get. All for one and one for all. Everyone should get the same. X amount of pennies divided between X amount of workers EQUALLY.

Al

[The Yellow Peril]

Something that was mentioned today at Longbridge was that in 2001/02, Longbridge was profitable but the debts came about because BMW dumped all their Cowley loses on to Longbridge to "balance the books" when they pulled out, so maybe the report will make interesting reading after all.

Andy

[GreyGhost]

Originally Posted by The Yellow Peril

Something that was mentioned today at Longbridge was that in 2001/02, Longbridge was profitable but the debts came about because BMW dumped all their Cowley loses on to Longbridge to "balance the books" when they pulled out, so maybe the report will make interesting reading after all.

Andy

Another twist of the knife? As you say will make interesting reading.

[whyte850]

The real problem here is the British people and there lost sense of patriotism. Up and until the 1950s and 60s we still had a car industry to beat the world. We still had thriving aircraft manufactures, De Havilland and Bristol spring to mind.The great ocean liners and warships built on the Clyde instilled national pride. We could quite clearly see the hard work put in and the fruits of our labour. Our economy was very much engineering and manufacturing based. The problem we have now is most people have the perception that Britain does`nt make anything anymore and that probably is true to a certain degree. The service sector need to expand less rapidly and there needs to be a re-balanceing of the economy, France seem to have it about right (anyway that`s your political sermon over for today class)

[e668ecp]

The UK economy is basically bankrupt... simple as that.

HMG should have let HBOS and Northern Rock as companies go to the wall, nationalising only the Mortgages and Savings in a small operation which could then quickly be sold on. They did the same with MG Rover and LDV (i.e. let them go to the wall). Imagine though if this had happened people would be in uproar but its only a different business sector.

We will suffer financially in the long term without our manufacturing base but as they say "I'm alright Jack". Didn't Napoleon once say that we are just a nation of shop keepers?

I wonder what we as a country have become