I think it's clutch replacement time...

Tourist · 6th March 2024, 10:55

Hello everyone,

I think my Tourer's clutch has sadly finally failed at 128k miles.

The pedal has been heavy ever since I've owned the car (bought it at about 65k miles, 8ish years ago) and I've been waiting for it to fail ever since so I'm happy it's lasted this long.

The symptoms are that the biting point has been getting lower and lower and now I'm having trouble getting it into reverse and 1st particularly, but it's not great getting into any gears really. It may also have been slipping very slightly on full throttle, going up a hill - not sure as it could have been momentary wheelspin on a wet/greasy road.

I'm looking at doing the job myself (I've done three or four clutch replacements over the years) and just wanted to get some advice about the best replacement parts to buy, and jobs to do while I've got it apart. I've read on other threads here that replacing slave and master cylinders is advisable so I'll probably get those and just do the job as a matter of course.

I will be checking the DMF and hope that it'll be OK but I guess at this age and mileage I should budget for replacing it.

What are the best brands and sources of components?

I'm just going to read the relevant Haynes sections now - I'm currently about 40 mins from home so hope that it'll last long enough for me to get home this evening! Looks like my weekend plans are on hold!

Thanks everyone, I really value all the help and knowledge on this forum.

macafee2 · 6th March 2024, 11:06

parts from DMGRS should be ok. The Haynes manual is indeed very good for advice on the task.
when you come to remove the bell housing from the engine, have an A4 or a bit larger piece of card. Draw a circle on it and mark as best you can where the bell housing bolt holes are. As you remove each bolt, poke it through the card. The reason is the bolts are different lengths.
Good luck as this job is not for the faint hearted.

I replaced my drive shaft to gearbox oil seals as well as the drive shaft circlip. I'd be interested in others thoughts about replacing the circlip

macafee2

Tourist · 6th March 2024, 14:01

Cheers for taking the time to reply!

I've just ordered the premium clutch kit with hydraulics, gearbox/driveshaft seals and 2 litres of MTF from DMGRS.

Couldn't find the circlips at DMGRS and think I'll probably just re-use the ones that are already on it. Hopefully that's OK.

The Rover will live to fight another day!

YHT · 6th March 2024, 16:26

Good luck with the clutch.
You should replace the slave at the same time as you will have to disturb it and its not V expensive when all the hasstle of splitting gearbox from engine is considered. The master cylinder can be done independently.
There is a good post somewhere on here about dong the clutch change without taking the sub frame out or the whole gearbox. Bit of a fiddle but saves disturbing the exhaust and steering rack etc.
Back bleeding from the bleed valve to the master (with the master top off and rags to catch what comes out of the reservoir seems the easiest to me. I have a piece of hose and a pump oil can to push the clutch fluid in. Seems to work for me.

Tourist · 9th March 2024, 16:55

Hi YHT,

Thanks for your reply and yes indeed, I'll be replacing both slave and master cylinders.

I have spent a few hours today with my dad, disassembling as directed by Mr. Haynes. I preferred to do it the long way, by removing the subframe, exhaust and steering rack as I wasn't too confident I could replace the clutch and test the DMF with the other method.

One of the worst job was getting the starter motor bolts undone - they were extremely tight.

Unfortunately Mr. Haynes lead us up the garden path and only mentioned undoing the driveshaft retaining nuts in the hubs after I'd already removed the subframe and lower control arms. Not an easy job! That should have been one of the first jobs while the car was still in one piece on its wheels.

Ah well - I'll know for next time!

I've decided to remove the entire driveshaft, hub, and suspension strut as one piece instead of separating the driveshaft from the hub. Unfortunately I didn't have my ball-joint separator with me so I'll sort that when I go back to my parents' house tomorrow.

Hopefully by the end of tomorrow, the driveshafts will be off, along with the gearbox.

A few pics:

Our patented 'box' method for keeping track of the bolts we removed

As I left it this evening.

Subframe removed.

Tourist · 9th March 2024, 16:58

Oh - quick question: Haynes says that I need to replace the subframe bolts rather than re-using them. Is that true?

Lee T · 9th March 2024, 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourist

Oh - quick question: Haynes says that I need to replace the subframe bolts rather than re-using them. Is that true?

In a word, NO.

macafee2 · 9th March 2024, 18:13

As well as labeling the bolts, I labelled some of the places the bolts went to. Good on you for taking this on, it is a big job.
The hub nuts you may be able to swop with each other as they could very well stake at different locations.

good luck

macafee2

Tourist · 9th March 2024, 19:15

Cheers for the replies gents. Re-used bolts it is then!

It certainly is quite a big job (thanks for the encouragement!) and this kind of thing can be daunting but it was make or brake for the Rover as if I didn't repair this myself it would have been time for a new car. Besides I enjoy working on cars with my dad and we've done quite a lot of little car-related projects together.

Probably the most involved was swapping the 1.6 auto engine, gearbox, suspension, wiring loom, pedal box, gear selector etc, out of my Vanden Plas Maestro and all the parts from a very rusty MG Maestro 2.0 EFI in instead.

I still have that car and it's a joy to drive - or at least it was until I laid it up. I really must get it going again. We did the clutch on that, but it was a lot easier when the engine was out of the car, on the ground.

I'll post an update tomorrow.

Tourist · 10th March 2024, 20:12

Good news - Dad and I spent a couple of hours today with the Rover and managed to finish the disassembly job.

Removing the whole front suspension assemblies instead of trying to undo the hub nuts and just remove the driveshafts was a lot easier. Splitting the gearbox off the engine was also a lot easier than expected and it was soon lowered to the floor.

I had a bit of a re-think over night and decided not to risk re-using the DMF. I didn't fancy doing the job again any time soon, so I've ordered a replacement which will be with me on Tuesday. Better safe than sorry I think!

We're all ready for reassembly now, just need the parts so I'll continue the saga when we resume early next week.

6th March 2024, 10:55	#1
Tourist Loves to post 2004 Rover 75 Tourer CDTi Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Fulbourn, Cambridge Posts: 455 Thanks: 105 Thanked 123 Times in 101 Posts	I think it's clutch replacement time... Hello everyone, I think my Tourer's clutch has sadly finally failed at 128k miles. The pedal has been heavy ever since I've owned the car (bought it at about 65k miles, 8ish years ago) and I've been waiting for it to fail ever since so I'm happy it's lasted this long. The symptoms are that the biting point has been getting lower and lower and now I'm having trouble getting it into reverse and 1st particularly, but it's not great getting into any gears really. It may also have been slipping very slightly on full throttle, going up a hill - not sure as it could have been momentary wheelspin on a wet/greasy road. I'm looking at doing the job myself (I've done three or four clutch replacements over the years) and just wanted to get some advice about the best replacement parts to buy, and jobs to do while I've got it apart. I've read on other threads here that replacing slave and master cylinders is advisable so I'll probably get those and just do the job as a matter of course. I will be checking the DMF and hope that it'll be OK but I guess at this age and mileage I should budget for replacing it. What are the best brands and sources of components? I'm just going to read the relevant Haynes sections now - I'm currently about 40 mins from home so hope that it'll last long enough for me to get home this evening! Looks like my weekend plans are on hold! Thanks everyone, I really value all the help and knowledge on this forum.

10th March 2024, 20:12	#10
Tourist Loves to post 2004 Rover 75 Tourer CDTi Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Fulbourn, Cambridge Posts: 455 Thanks: 105 Thanked 123 Times in 101 Posts	Good news - Dad and I spent a couple of hours today with the Rover and managed to finish the disassembly job. Removing the whole front suspension assemblies instead of trying to undo the hub nuts and just remove the driveshafts was a lot easier. Splitting the gearbox off the engine was also a lot easier than expected and it was soon lowered to the floor. I had a bit of a re-think over night and decided not to risk re-using the DMF. I didn't fancy doing the job again any time soon, so I've ordered a replacement which will be with me on Tuesday. Better safe than sorry I think! We're all ready for reassembly now, just need the parts so I'll continue the saga when we resume early next week. Last edited by Tourist; 10th March 2024 at 20:13.. Reason: typo

6th March 2024, 11:06	#2
macafee2 This is my second home Rover 75 Saloon & Tourer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Lincoln Posts: 14,928 Thanks: 1,630 Thanked 3,032 Times in 2,181 Posts	parts from DMGRS should be ok. The Haynes manual is indeed very good for advice on the task. when you come to remove the bell housing from the engine, have an A4 or a bit larger piece of card. Draw a circle on it and mark as best you can where the bell housing bolt holes are. As you remove each bolt, poke it through the card. The reason is the bolts are different lengths. Good luck as this job is not for the faint hearted. I replaced my drive shaft to gearbox oil seals as well as the drive shaft circlip. I'd be interested in others thoughts about replacing the circlip macafee2

6th March 2024, 14:01	#3
Tourist Loves to post 2004 Rover 75 Tourer CDTi Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Fulbourn, Cambridge Posts: 455 Thanks: 105 Thanked 123 Times in 101 Posts	Cheers for taking the time to reply! I've just ordered the premium clutch kit with hydraulics, gearbox/driveshaft seals and 2 litres of MTF from DMGRS. Couldn't find the circlips at DMGRS and think I'll probably just re-use the ones that are already on it. Hopefully that's OK. The Rover will live to fight another day!

6th March 2024, 16:26	#4
YHT Loves to post Rover 75 Saloon Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: suffolk Posts: 264 Thanks: 46 Thanked 25 Times in 23 Posts	Good luck with the clutch. You should replace the slave at the same time as you will have to disturb it and its not V expensive when all the hasstle of splitting gearbox from engine is considered. The master cylinder can be done independently. There is a good post somewhere on here about dong the clutch change without taking the sub frame out or the whole gearbox. Bit of a fiddle but saves disturbing the exhaust and steering rack etc. Back bleeding from the bleed valve to the master (with the master top off and rags to catch what comes out of the reservoir seems the easiest to me. I have a piece of hose and a pump oil can to push the clutch fluid in. Seems to work for me.

9th March 2024, 16:55	#5
Tourist Loves to post 2004 Rover 75 Tourer CDTi Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Fulbourn, Cambridge Posts: 455 Thanks: 105 Thanked 123 Times in 101 Posts	Hi YHT, Thanks for your reply and yes indeed, I'll be replacing both slave and master cylinders. I have spent a few hours today with my dad, disassembling as directed by Mr. Haynes. I preferred to do it the long way, by removing the subframe, exhaust and steering rack as I wasn't too confident I could replace the clutch and test the DMF with the other method. One of the worst job was getting the starter motor bolts undone - they were extremely tight. Unfortunately Mr. Haynes lead us up the garden path and only mentioned undoing the driveshaft retaining nuts in the hubs after I'd already removed the subframe and lower control arms. Not an easy job! That should have been one of the first jobs while the car was still in one piece on its wheels. Ah well - I'll know for next time! I've decided to remove the entire driveshaft, hub, and suspension strut as one piece instead of separating the driveshaft from the hub. Unfortunately I didn't have my ball-joint separator with me so I'll sort that when I go back to my parents' house tomorrow. Hopefully by the end of tomorrow, the driveshafts will be off, along with the gearbox. A few pics: Our patented 'box' method for keeping track of the bolts we removed As I left it this evening. Subframe removed.

9th March 2024, 16:58	#6
Tourist Loves to post 2004 Rover 75 Tourer CDTi Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Fulbourn, Cambridge Posts: 455 Thanks: 105 Thanked 123 Times in 101 Posts	Oh - quick question: Haynes says that I need to replace the subframe bolts rather than re-using them. Is that true?

9th March 2024, 18:13	#8
macafee2 This is my second home Rover 75 Saloon & Tourer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Lincoln Posts: 14,928 Thanks: 1,630 Thanked 3,032 Times in 2,181 Posts	As well as labeling the bolts, I labelled some of the places the bolts went to. Good on you for taking this on, it is a big job. The hub nuts you may be able to swop with each other as they could very well stake at different locations. good luck macafee2

9th March 2024, 19:15	#9
Tourist Loves to post 2004 Rover 75 Tourer CDTi Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Fulbourn, Cambridge Posts: 455 Thanks: 105 Thanked 123 Times in 101 Posts	Cheers for the replies gents. Re-used bolts it is then! It certainly is quite a big job (thanks for the encouragement!) and this kind of thing can be daunting but it was make or brake for the Rover as if I didn't repair this myself it would have been time for a new car. Besides I enjoy working on cars with my dad and we've done quite a lot of little car-related projects together. Probably the most involved was swapping the 1.6 auto engine, gearbox, suspension, wiring loom, pedal box, gear selector etc, out of my Vanden Plas Maestro and all the parts from a very rusty MG Maestro 2.0 EFI in instead. I still have that car and it's a joy to drive - or at least it was until I laid it up. I really must get it going again. We did the clutch on that, but it was a lot easier when the engine was out of the car, on the ground. I'll post an update tomorrow.