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Old 28th April 2019, 14:33   #31
trikey
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Originally Posted by mss View Post

If you wanted to debate the rights and wrongs of speeding laws and penalties, it would have been better to take the option to go to court and do so with a judge.

Hmmm don’t think that would do any good, judges are like politicians.. so far removed from everyday society they ain’t got a clue about real day to day life.
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Old 28th April 2019, 14:56   #32
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Where I live you never see a police officer on clock watch unless it’s five minutes to end of shift. Still fewer unless some noseypoke has reported speedsters and is a council member. Police station closed four years ago so any patrol has to come from main station some five miles away, anything could have happened by the time the ‘emergency’ is long over.

We haven’t seen a patrol around here since we have lived here – 15 years. On the other hand, one mile away there is a main trunk road that is regularly patrolled by new BMW police cars with fat coppers in them waiting in side roads. What can a BMW do that a Ford can’t? Ever seen those Pride of Essex cop shows? Make one’s own mind up about priorities. By the way, is there still an ‘allowance’ of 10% plus 4 over the limit?

There surely cannot be any argument, it’s about revenue from start to finish. More significant is that exceeding the speed limit is an everyday occurrence so the present system is plainly not working - penalties are ineffective.

The point about awareness courses is a valid one in that, judging by the general standard of driving, approaching half of the drivers on the road have long ago forgotten almost all they had to observe on their test. Maybe IAM testing should be compulsory after five years.
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Old 28th April 2019, 15:43   #33
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Hmmm don’t think that would do any good, judges are like politicians.. so far removed from everyday society they ain’t got a clue about real day to day life.

Andy - why don't you come down this way for a day of leisure?

We could have a day at Ipswich Crown Court. I guarantee that if you sit in the court for a day, your opinion of judges will end up being totally transformed for the positive.

Judges are at the other end of the spectrum from our politicians.

I have sat in the court just for the pleasure and it really was.
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Old 28th April 2019, 16:00   #34
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Cobblers; I am talking about fines from police speed awareness courses (which is the subject here), not fines for people who choose not to attend or are not given the opportunity to attend.

Ref, you initial post..........

No, I was debating this with a professional trainer who couldn't deliver a counter argument. What is going to a court judge to do with the price of mature cheddar?
I suspect that I am in need of being educated. My understanding is that if a Speed Awareness Course is offered it is in lieu of a fine/prosecution i.e. there is no fine if a speed awareness course is offered and accepted. There is a fee to cover the cost of the course, but this is not a fine. It is the cost of the provision of the course.

Have I misunderstood the facts?

The speed awareness course is not the place to debate the relative causes of accidents - you are there because you have effectively pleaded guilty to a wrongdoing and the course is intended to hopefully guide you to not do it again.
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Old 28th April 2019, 16:32   #35
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Originally Posted by mss View Post
I suspect that I am in need of being educated. My understanding is that if a Speed Awareness Course is offered it is in lieu of a fine/prosecution i.e. there is no fine if a speed awareness course is offered and accepted. There is a fee to cover the cost of the course, but this is not a fine. It is the cost of the provision of the course.

Have I misunderstood the facts?

The speed awareness course is not the place to debate the relative causes of accidents - you are there because you have effectively pleaded guilty to a wrongdoing and the course is intended to hopefully guide you to not do it again.
I don't know - you tell me if you understand or misunderstand. Speed awareness courses were £100 a head when I took mine. 20 people attending. £2k income I am sure that covers costs of a couple of lecturers for a day plus the venue with some healthy profit. Only a naive person would not consider the profiteering angle to this.

Not the place to debate? Says who - you?

Seems the wonderful world of MSS is somewhat black and white.
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Old 28th April 2019, 16:36   #36
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I got done speeding 35 years ago in a 1275GT Mini, was doing 40 in a 30 zone, sneaky devil was using a hand held radar gun and a patrol car nabbed me.

The worst part was that my late Father was a Policeman, so I should have known better.
3 points on my licence and a £25 fine.
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Old 28th April 2019, 16:38   #37
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I don't know - you tell me if you understand or misunderstand. Speed awareness courses were £100 a head when I took mine. 20 people attending. £2k income I am sure that covers costs of a couple of lecturers for a day plus the venue with some healthy profit. Only a naive person would not consider the profiteering angle to this.

Not the place to debate? Says who - you?

Seems the wonderful world of MSS is somewhat black and white.

All I can say is - you should try laying on a 1/2 day (3.5 to 4 hours) course for 20 people and see how the total cost works out.
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Old 28th April 2019, 16:50   #38
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I was given the option of one of these scam courses, and told them I would like to attend court instead.

When I attended the court, I was given ample opportunity to run rings around the traffic officer, and that is exactly what I did.

The magistrates deliberated for around fifteen minutes, after which the case against me was dismissed.

I then claimed for my loss of earnings for the time taken in court and this was also awarded to me.

The point I'm trying to make here is quite simple, the court system is not as everyone believes skewed in favour of the police, and if you have a valid point to make, or indeed a technical point to make where the police have not adhered strictly to the letter of the law, then it is up to you whether you feel strongly enough about it to take the calculated "risk" of attending court.

Far to many individuals take this sort of nonsense lying down, and opt for the "easy way out", I would never accept an offer of any awareness course, and if I believed myself to be in the wrong, would opt to take the penalty points and fine instead.

I've certainly have better things to do with my time to be "educated" about the dangers of speed.

Brian
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Old 28th April 2019, 17:01   #39
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I've certainly have better things to do with my time to be "educated" about the dangers of speed.Brian
Yes, get a more powerful car!
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Old 28th April 2019, 17:13   #40
MSS
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Originally Posted by marinabrian View Post
I was given the option of one of these scam courses, and told them I would like to attend court instead.

When I attended the court, I was given ample opportunity to run rings around the traffic officer, and that is exactly what I did.

The magistrates deliberated for around fifteen minutes, after which the case against me was dismissed.

I then claimed for my loss of earnings for the time taken in court and this was also awarded to me.

The point I'm trying to make here is quite simple, the court system is not as everyone believes skewed in favour of the police, and if you have a valid point to make, or indeed a technical point to make where the police have not adhered strictly to the letter of the law, then it is up to you whether you feel strongly enough about it to take the calculated "risk" of attending court.

Far to many individuals take this sort of nonsense lying down, and opt for the "easy way out", I would never accept an offer of any awareness course, and if I believed myself to be in the wrong, would opt to take the penalty points and fine instead.

I've certainly have better things to do with my time to be "educated" about the dangers of speed.

Brian

Brian - you are saying exactly what I said. This is that if you wish to debate/challenge the fine or intended prosecution notice, then go to court.

Rp61973 had chosen to be educated, although it appears he thought he going there to educate the trainer. Have you tried that yourself?
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