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Old 4th March 2020, 11:32   #311
Avulon
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Originally Posted by guru View Post
Using a super cheap overnight tarif and taking advantage of the free charging points provided by Norfolk county council we should see that drop to around £5 a week in electricity, possibly saving £70 a week in fuel alone.

We'll be using one of our other cars for long distances although we'll probably take the ZS EV on the Norwich to Bath run to see that family as there's plenty of 50kw fast chargers en-route and having 2 children we tend to make a couple of half hour stops anyway so it won't really be much of an inconvenience.

I'll echo Johns sceptism on the 'free' charging points - I don't think they'll last long, and it's already clear that charging at points without having a subscription is going to start to cost upwards of 3 times what household power does: a quick calculation using 'Paid' ionity chargers without subscription revealed a 160mile range on £60 ish worth of charging.



Interesting that you don't seem to mind adding over 20% journey time to your long journeys (at the cost of shortening the battery life to your EV as well). Although you say that you'll prefer the ICE cars over EV for long distance.


Unimaginable I know to some proponents of the EV strategy - some people do actually travel lengthy distances in short periods of time quite regularly using personal transport. Currently it's not difficult for me to drive/ride to the NEC for an expo arriving at 8:30am and leaving at 5:00pm - and make it home with no need for refueling (recharging). Under EV plans almost every parking space in the country, including every street parking space is going to need a Charger device stood there: because everytime you stop you are going to have to plug it in. Has anyone asked what the pollution and carbon footprint of one of those is?



Don't get me wrong - EV cars are going to be really useful tools for commuting (for those in easy range of work) if pricing/charging etc can be worked out to be reasonable. However as distance transport they are a non-starter, and public transport is even worse especially for middle distances and less popular or remote locations.


Where EV vehicles will really let everyone down is in emergency situations.
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Old 4th March 2020, 11:55   #312
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Personally I don't think EV's are the way forward, they are overrated and overpriced.

If you want a decent one for example the Audi E Tron or the Tesla then they take you over the £40K bracket and the VED is £565 for 5 years.

Next charging: Where I live there is one charging point, which you can check here on the Zap Map.

Charging from home that's difficult as well as I would need a 100ft cable from the house up to my parking space.

Although I have Smart Meters I'm on 'Pay as You Go' because I rent privately and the Owner won't allow normal meters to be installed.

I reckon I will stick with my environmentally unfriendly diesel MG ZTT because I don't do many miles a year.
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Old 4th March 2020, 12:26   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avulon View Post
I'll echo Johns sceptism on the 'free' charging points - I don't think they'll last long, and it's already clear that charging at points without having a subscription is going to start to cost upwards of 3 times what household power does: a quick calculation using 'Paid' ionity chargers without subscription revealed a 160mile range on £60 ish worth of charging.



Interesting that you don't seem to mind adding over 20% journey time to your long journeys (at the cost of shortening the battery life to your EV as well). Although you say that you'll prefer the ICE cars over EV for long distance.


Unimaginable I know to some proponents of the EV strategy - some people do actually travel lengthy distances in short periods of time quite regularly using personal transport. Currently it's not difficult for me to drive/ride to the NEC for an expo arriving at 8:30am and leaving at 5:00pm - and make it home with no need for refueling (recharging). Under EV plans almost every parking space in the country, including every street parking space is going to need a Charger device stood there: because everytime you stop you are going to have to plug it in. Has anyone asked what the pollution and carbon footprint of one of those is?



Don't get me wrong - EV cars are going to be really useful tools for commuting (for those in easy range of work) if pricing/charging etc can be worked out to be reasonable. However as distance transport they are a non-starter, and public transport is even worse especially for middle distances and less popular or remote locations.


Where EV vehicles will really let everyone down is in emergency situations.
I'm not quote sure how you get £60 for 160 miles? By my calculations........
160 / 3.5 (the MG normally does around 3.5miles per kwh) gives 45.71kwh
45.71 * £0.30 = £13.71 (Ecotricitys standard rate is currently 30p/kwh

and even at Ionitys extortionate 69p per kwh rate it's still only £31.54 although fortunately if we do our run to Bath all of the chargers we'd use are the cheaper Ecotricity ones plus of course we'll leave home fully charged on super cheap power

As said we tend to take 2 half hour breaks anyway on that journey so actually it won't add anything to our journey time and I suspect that most people would take a break on a journey of that length.

I will concede that for long journeys it's not going to be as convenient however the cost saving makes it worthwhile for us. Of course battery technology is improving all the time and by the time ICE engines are banned in 2035 we'll probably have batteries that will do 400 miles and recharge in 5 minutes so very similar to petrol and diesel cars now.

I do also hope that people move to electric as soon as possible, the reason being that if people desperately cling on the petrol and diesel cars the government will introduce tougher and more punitive legislation to force everyone to go electric which will then forever affect those of us that want to run classic cars whereas if everyone jumps ship in the next few years naturally they'll leave us alone and we'll still be able to continue running ICE cars.
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Old 4th March 2020, 12:49   #314
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I will concede that for long journeys it's not going to be as convenient however the cost saving makes it worthwhile for us. Of course battery technology is improving all the time and by the time ICE engines are banned in 2035 we'll probably have batteries that will do 400 miles and recharge in 5 minutes so very similar to petrol and diesel cars now.

ICE engines aren't going to be banned in 2035, you just won't be able to buy a new one.
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Old 4th March 2020, 13:21   #315
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What worries me is how expensive will they make it to run these older cars!



Is Euro CAT 7 on the horizon?



"Mercedes is embarking on a cost cutting plan to free up cash to build BEV's & self driving cars which could see the company reducing the many different variants of Mercedes' vehicles together with entire platforms and powertrains, Schaefer said."


They're axing the 'X' class, the 'S' class & considering axing the 'B' class also.


"Yes we will have fewer platforms in future," Schaefer said in response to a question about whether Mercedes will build cars on fewer more flexible vehicle underpinnings.
Some products may get eliminated by tightening emissions standards, such as the introduction of so-called euro 7 exhaust emissions standards."


If they're talking of bringing in Euro class 7 sooner rather than later I can see the government making it more expensive for older more polluting cars to be on the road.



https://europe.autonews.com/automake...rms-eliminated
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Old 4th March 2020, 13:31   #316
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It's earlier than that as they have moved the date, I think we have 12 years.
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Old 4th March 2020, 15:29   #317
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If EV's are the answer to a barren Earth, Try this:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...place-on-earth

Don't be frit, read the whole article.

Then consider the disparity between the evangelists' infantile dog-whistle politics from the Climate Rabble and the Big Business cynical impetus on EV's. Honestly, which is worse?

On balance, I state I will never ever buy an EV, under any circumstances. Unless it goes on the track in my attic.
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Old 4th March 2020, 15:52   #318
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I think people are a little too hung up on this being about the environment or a tiny minority who's daily commute is over 200 miles! As previously stated my reasons have nothing to do with the environment and the fact my daily drivers are either a 29 year old non-catalyst Rover Sterling or a 3.5l V6 SLK go to show it's not really my primary concern. What I dislike most about environmentalists is how preachy and pious they are. You're never going to get people to change by nagging you need to make the alternative easy to live with and that's pretty much where we're at now with electric cars. Yes they're not going to suit 100% of people however neither does an ICE car, there are plenty of people for whom public transport is a better fit with their needs however the fact is that for a majority of people an EV is now a very sensible alternative.

I find it interesting that it only tends to be people who have never tried an EV for an extended period that berate them. I'm yet to talk to anyone who drives an EV and actually wants to go back to an ICE car. I personally look forward to a future where it's only enthusiasts that run ICE cars and I hope that happens before the government decide to tax them out of existence, once we have 500% tax on petrol and diesel it'll never be reversed even when EV's are the norm however if the change happens organically quickly enough that won't happen as they'll have no need to force it.
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Old 4th March 2020, 16:10   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guru View Post
I think people are a little too hung up on this being about the environment or a tiny minority who's daily commute is over 200 miles! As previously stated my reasons have nothing to do with the environment and the fact my daily drivers are either a 29 year old non-catalyst Rover Sterling or a 3.5l V6 SLK go to show it's not really my primary concern. What I dislike most about environmentalists is how preachy and pious they are. You're never going to get people to change by nagging you need to make the alternative easy to live with and that's pretty much where we're at now with electric cars. Yes they're not going to suit 100% of people however neither does an ICE car, there are plenty of people for whom public transport is a better fit with their needs however the fact is that for a majority of people an EV is now a very sensible alternative.

I find it interesting that it only tends to be people who have never tried an EV for an extended period that berate them. I'm yet to talk to anyone who drives an EV and actually wants to go back to an ICE car. I personally look forward to a future where it's only enthusiasts that run ICE cars and I hope that happens before the government decide to tax them out of existence, once we have 500% tax on petrol and diesel it'll never be reversed even when EV's are the norm however if the change happens organically quickly enough that won't happen as they'll have no need to force it.
I don't dislike EV's but they are damned expensive, the one I like and this is for a 5 year old one is the Tesla S, £35K.

The new ones are around £85K depending on extras etc.

Okay there are cheaper ones but I don't like compromising, I prefer to buy what I want or not to have it at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wraymond View Post
If EV's are the answer to a barren Earth, Try this:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...place-on-earth

Don't be frit, read the whole article.

Then consider the disparity between the evangelists' infantile dog-whistle politics from the Climate Rabble and the Big Business cynical impetus on EV's. Honestly, which is worse?

On balance, I state I will never ever buy an EV, under any circumstances. Unless it goes on the track in my attic.
Shocking I know.

China wants to be the provider of everything and dictate prices.
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Old 6th March 2020, 19:03   #320
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Good evening,


I've only just poked my nose into the General Forum and this topic caught my attention. Having recently sold on my sixty-year-old classic, and happily using the twenty-year-old 75 for my admittedly sparse everyday motoring, electric vehicles are not on my horizon. There is, however, one aspect of EV ownership which seems to have eluded my awareness, but may already have been aired in the preceding 40+ pages of this thread. If so, please bear with me.



The thought is prompted by my perfectly serviceable laptop for which I am unable to source a replacement battery at a sensible price. Since it performs adequately on the mains adapter, the only irritation is its loss of portability. It is this question which exercises my mind about the subject of EVs. Has the lifetime/durability of the monster batteries been cited anywhere? I understand that batteries have a finite and relatively limited number of charge/drain/recharge cycles. What is the life of the battery, and has the cost of battery replacement been considered in the running costs for EVs, I wonder. Further, the principal rare elements used for contemporary battery construction seem, at present, to be found in the less salubrious parts of Africa. What does that cost in exploitation, transport and energy? Have those factors been incorporated in the 'benefits' of EVs? It would be very interesting to see such information compiled by someone who knows the data and is not linked to motor industry, or other vested interests. If yes, have the figures been published?


Derek.

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