You Licence out of date?

Yella Fella · 5th December 2008, 08:00

A friend sent this by e-mail. There is a lot of reading below but basically, if you have the new photo style licence which was first issued in 1998, you need to check if its out of date at point 4b on the front of your licence. See below for the article. People don't realise they are only valid for 10 years

Unwitting motorists face £1,000 fines as thousands of photocard driving licences expire.

Thousands of motorists are at risk of being fined up to £1,000 because they are unwittingly driving without a valid licence.

They risk prosecution after failing to spot the extremely small print on their photocard licence which says it automatically expires after 10 years and has to be renewed - even though drivers are licensed to drive until the age of 70.

The fiasco has come to light a decade after the first batch of photo licences was issued in July 1998, just as the they start to expire.

Motoring organisations blamed the Government for the fiasco and said 'most' drivers believed their licences were for life.

A mock-up driving licence from 1998 when the photocards were launched shows the imminent expiry date as item '4b'.

They said officials had failed to publicise sufficiently the fact that
new-style licences - unlike the old paper ones - expire after a set period and have to be renewed.

To rub salt into wounds, drivers will have to a pay £17.50 to renew their card - a charge which critics have condemned as a 'stealth tax' and which will earn the Treasury an estimated £437million over 25 years.

Official DVLA figures reveal that while 16,136 expired this summer, so far only 11,566 drivers have renewed, leaving 4,570 outstanding.

With another 300,000 photocard licences due to expire over the coming year, experts fear the number of invalid licences will soar, putting thousands more drivers in breach of the law and at risk of a fine.

At the heart of the confusion is the small print on the tiny credit-card-size photo licence, which is used in conjunction with the paper version.

Just below the driver name on the front of the photocard licence is a series of dates and details - each one numbered.

Number 4b features a date in tiny writing, but no explicit explanation as to what it means.

The date's significance is only explained if the driver turns over the card and reads the key on the back which states that '4b' means 'licence valid to'.

Even more confusingly, an adjacent table on the rear of the card sets out how long the driver is registered to hold a licence - that is until his or her 70th birthday.

A total of 25million new-style licences have been issued but - motoring experts say - drivers were never sufficiently warned they would expire after 10 years.

Motorists who fail to renew their licences in time are allowed to continue driving. But the DVLA says they could be charged with 'failing to surrender their licence', an offence carrying a £1,000 fine.

AA president, Edmund King said: 'It is not generally known that photocard licences expire: there appears to be a lack of information that people will have to renew these licences.

'People think they have already paid them for once over and that is it.

'It will come as a surprise to motorists and a shock that they have to pay an extra £17.50.'

The AA called on the Government to use the annual £450million from traffic enforcement fines to offset the renewal charge.

Before photocard licences were introduced, old-style paper licences were valid until the age of 70.

'Many motorists still believe this to be the case with the new ones.'

Driving instructor Tony Carter, of Canterbury , said: 'It's outrageous; everybody thinks their driving licence is for life.

'Why - when you have already paid £50 for your photocard licence - should you pay the Government an extra £17.50 every 10 years?

'It's another stealth tax. Drivers will be very annoyed.'

Today the DVLA said the date of expiry was carried on the new-style licences, even though the AA says this is 'not clear'.

The Agency was unable to say whether motorists were told the licences would expire when they were first issued.

It said it was issuing postal reminders to drivers whose photograph was due to expire, to get the renewal message across. But a spokesman admitted this was the limit of the DVLA's publicity.

Experts say many drivers will slip through the net because DVLA records are inaccurate and many motorists have changed address, making it impossible to trace them.

A DVLA spokesman said: 'Previous experience has shown that wide-scale publicity is less effective and can generate enquiries and concerns from those not affected. Instead, DVLA focused on targeted publicity to ensure that we got the message to the right person at the right time.'

The Driving Standards Agency is allowing L-test candidates with out-of-date photocard licences to sit their driving tests as long as they provide a valid passport. This concession will end in January next year, raising the prospect that some L-test candidates will be turned away.

The DVLA said no one had so far been charged with failing to surrender a licence.

pshuttle · 5th December 2008, 08:28

I noticed this a few months back as mine will expire next year. It suprised a few people who assumed they were pretty much for life.

Shocking!

Ken · 5th December 2008, 08:35

Just checked mine and its 2012 so ok for a while yet :lol:

allegroman · 5th December 2008, 10:18

Out of interest does anyone know if it's on offence to not get a new licence once endorsements have expired? I've got an old fashioned licence, don't really want to get a photocard one, and I'm not bothered about getting the endorsement removed, but just want to make sure I don't fall foul of some sneaky regulation (had a look on DVLA site and can't see anything...).

Ken · 5th December 2008, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by allegroman

Out of interest does anyone know if it's on offence to not get a new licence once endorsements have expired? I've got an old fashioned licence, don't really want to get a photocard one, and I'm not bothered about getting the endorsement removed, but just want to make sure I don't fall foul of some sneaky regulation (had a look on DVLA site and can't see anything...).

I had an SP3 on mine which had expired but I waited until I moved before getting a new licence. Nobody said anything and it was three years.

GreyGhost · 5th December 2008, 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by allegroman

Out of interest does anyone know if it's on offence to not get a new licence once endorsements have expired? I've got an old fashioned licence, don't really want to get a photocard one, and I'm not bothered about getting the endorsement removed, but just want to make sure I don't fall foul of some sneaky regulation (had a look on DVLA site and can't see anything...).

AFAIK there is no necessity to change a valid paper licence for a photo one, unless there is a change in your circumstances, ie change of address.

calibrax · 5th December 2008, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Ghost

AFAIK there is no necessity to change a valid paper licence for a photo one, unless there is a change in your circumstances, ie change of address.

That's true... I had my paper licence up to 2007... I changed my address in 1999 and didn't get round to changing the licence, was pulled by the police on the M20 in 2007 for speeding... they actually let me off, but told me to get my licence updated, which I did.

The other reason for getting it updated is if you travel abroad and want to hire a car. A lot of places won't accept the paper version, only a photocard one.

The other thing is that the old paper licence was an international driving licence - the photocard one ISN'T. A lot of countries (non-EU) require you to have an IDP (International Driving Permit), which you get from the AA, cost about £5.50, valid for a year. Not sure if any of this goes to the government, but it's a nice little earner for someone...

http://www.theaa.com/getaway/idp/

tourerfogey · 5th December 2008, 13:16

Licence ? What's a Driving Licence ?

Only kidding - still have my original green paper job and will keep that until thy make me change it.

GreyGhost · 5th December 2008, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by calibrax

The other thing is that the old paper licence was an international driving licence - the photocard one ISN'T. A lot of countries (non-EU) require you to have an IDP (International Driving Permit), which you get from the AA, cost about £5.50, valid for a year. Not sure if any of this goes to the government, but it's a nice little earner for someone...

http://www.theaa.com/getaway/idp/

I'm not entirely sure that is the case. The prime requisite for use of a paper licence abroad was that it had to have attached a valid photograph stamped by the relevant authority. In my case the British consulate in Port Elizabeth SA.

75ContempSE · 5th December 2008, 13:36

Number 4b features a date in tiny writing, but no explicit explanation as to what it means

The above statment is not really true at least on mine. 4b, shows a date up to march 2010 for mine, but any one who has an ounce of common sense would have turned the photo licence over and seen that 4b, is licence valid to date, all info on front of the licence is expalined on the back via a key.

And surely when one gets any form of id that has a photo on, one must expect to have to renew at some point as everyone changes and they would need to be updated.

However i do agree about charging for the replacement, as any new things like this brought in by government should be charge free, lets face it we already pay enough tax.

5th December 2008, 08:00	#1
Yella Fella Nemo Me Impune Lacessit None at the moment Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Glasgow's HMP Barlinnie, 'A' Hall, 2nd Flat Posts: 5,192 Thanks: 493 Thanked 1,094 Times in 666 Posts	You Licence out of date? A friend sent this by e-mail. There is a lot of reading below but basically, if you have the new photo style licence which was first issued in 1998, you need to check if its out of date at point 4b on the front of your licence. See below for the article. People don't realise they are only valid for 10 years Unwitting motorists face £1,000 fines as thousands of photocard driving licences expire. Thousands of motorists are at risk of being fined up to £1,000 because they are unwittingly driving without a valid licence. They risk prosecution after failing to spot the extremely small print on their photocard licence which says it automatically expires after 10 years and has to be renewed - even though drivers are licensed to drive until the age of 70. The fiasco has come to light a decade after the first batch of photo licences was issued in July 1998, just as the they start to expire. Motoring organisations blamed the Government for the fiasco and said 'most' drivers believed their licences were for life. A mock-up driving licence from 1998 when the photocards were launched shows the imminent expiry date as item '4b'. They said officials had failed to publicise sufficiently the fact that new-style licences - unlike the old paper ones - expire after a set period and have to be renewed. To rub salt into wounds, drivers will have to a pay £17.50 to renew their card - a charge which critics have condemned as a 'stealth tax' and which will earn the Treasury an estimated £437million over 25 years. Official DVLA figures reveal that while 16,136 expired this summer, so far only 11,566 drivers have renewed, leaving 4,570 outstanding. With another 300,000 photocard licences due to expire over the coming year, experts fear the number of invalid licences will soar, putting thousands more drivers in breach of the law and at risk of a fine. At the heart of the confusion is the small print on the tiny credit-card-size photo licence, which is used in conjunction with the paper version. Just below the driver name on the front of the photocard licence is a series of dates and details - each one numbered. Number 4b features a date in tiny writing, but no explicit explanation as to what it means. The date's significance is only explained if the driver turns over the card and reads the key on the back which states that '4b' means 'licence valid to'. Even more confusingly, an adjacent table on the rear of the card sets out how long the driver is registered to hold a licence - that is until his or her 70th birthday. A total of 25million new-style licences have been issued but - motoring experts say - drivers were never sufficiently warned they would expire after 10 years. Motorists who fail to renew their licences in time are allowed to continue driving. But the DVLA says they could be charged with 'failing to surrender their licence', an offence carrying a £1,000 fine. AA president, Edmund King said: 'It is not generally known that photocard licences expire: there appears to be a lack of information that people will have to renew these licences. 'People think they have already paid them for once over and that is it. 'It will come as a surprise to motorists and a shock that they have to pay an extra £17.50.' The AA called on the Government to use the annual £450million from traffic enforcement fines to offset the renewal charge. Before photocard licences were introduced, old-style paper licences were valid until the age of 70. 'Many motorists still believe this to be the case with the new ones.' Driving instructor Tony Carter, of Canterbury , said: 'It's outrageous; everybody thinks their driving licence is for life. 'Why - when you have already paid £50 for your photocard licence - should you pay the Government an extra £17.50 every 10 years? 'It's another stealth tax. Drivers will be very annoyed.' Today the DVLA said the date of expiry was carried on the new-style licences, even though the AA says this is 'not clear'. The Agency was unable to say whether motorists were told the licences would expire when they were first issued. It said it was issuing postal reminders to drivers whose photograph was due to expire, to get the renewal message across. But a spokesman admitted this was the limit of the DVLA's publicity. Experts say many drivers will slip through the net because DVLA records are inaccurate and many motorists have changed address, making it impossible to trace them. A DVLA spokesman said: 'Previous experience has shown that wide-scale publicity is less effective and can generate enquiries and concerns from those not affected. Instead, DVLA focused on targeted publicity to ensure that we got the message to the right person at the right time.' The Driving Standards Agency is allowing L-test candidates with out-of-date photocard licences to sit their driving tests as long as they provide a valid passport. This concession will end in January next year, raising the prospect that some L-test candidates will be turned away. The DVLA said no one had so far been charged with failing to surrender a licence. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

5th December 2008, 08:28	#2
pshuttle Avid contributor BMW G20 320d. Previously, Rover 75 2.0 CDT Club SE and CDT Classic Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Preston Posts: 203 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I noticed this a few months back as mine will expire next year. It suprised a few people who assumed they were pretty much for life. Shocking! __________________ pshuttle - Rover 75 2.0 CDT Club SE -----------------------------------------------------------

5th December 2008, 10:18	#4
allegroman Gets stuck in Rover 75 Tourer CDT Club SE: BRG, Deep Sea Green and plenty of options Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Plymouth Posts: 984 Thanks: 126 Thanked 62 Times in 31 Posts	Out of interest does anyone know if it's on offence to not get a new licence once endorsements have expired? I've got an old fashioned licence, don't really want to get a photocard one, and I'm not bothered about getting the endorsement removed, but just want to make sure I don't fall foul of some sneaky regulation (had a look on DVLA site and can't see anything...). __________________ I used to be with it. Then they changed what it was.

5th December 2008, 13:36	#10
75ContempSE Loves to post Rover 75 2.0 V6 Club SE Auto Join Date: May 2007 Location: Walsall Posts: 498 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Number 4b features a date in tiny writing, but no explicit explanation as to what it means The above statment is not really true at least on mine. 4b, shows a date up to march 2010 for mine, but any one who has an ounce of common sense would have turned the photo licence over and seen that 4b, is licence valid to date, all info on front of the licence is expalined on the back via a key. And surely when one gets any form of id that has a photo on, one must expect to have to renew at some point as everyone changes and they would need to be updated. However i do agree about charging for the replacement, as any new things like this brought in by government should be charge free, lets face it we already pay enough tax. __________________ 75ContempSE

5th December 2008, 08:35	#3
Ken Busy doing nothing! . Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Hampshire Posts: 6,373 Thanks: 33 Thanked 44 Times in 16 Posts	Just checked mine and its 2012 so ok for a while yet :lol:

5th December 2008, 13:16	#8
tourerfogey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Licence ? What's a Driving Licence ? Only kidding - still have my original green paper job and will keep that until thy make me change it.