Retrofit Message Centre - definitive answers

CDTi · 24th March 2007, 22:00

There seems to be a lot of interest in this retrofit and there are numerous threads both here and on .org on the subject. I have just spent several hours reading threads on both sites and I am now more confused than when I started

. I've started this thread here to try and get all the info in one place. (Mods can delete my previous thread http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...ead.php?t=4095 as more info will hopefully be posted here)

OK, here goes – I have a facelift CDTi Classic SE without a message centre IPK. I just bought a message centre IPK from eBay for £102. It was listed as new and should be a bargain if it can be programmed to my car. When temporarily fitted to my car it showed 00000000 miles, so I believe it is new. The EPC shows the following IPKs for my VIN number:

MPH, trip computer YAC112393N
MPH, trip computer YAC003790LNF
MPH - High Line YAC003630LNF
MPH - High Line YAC003890LNF
MPH - Low Line YAC003650LNF
MPH - Low Line YAC003910LNF

The part number I bought is YAC003790LNF. Mike gave me further info on that part as follows (thanks Mike)

Instruments - Diesel.
YAC003790LNF Instrument pack - MPH, amber, panel illumination, trip computer

Attributes
From Year/Prefix 3D
From VIN 281592

While I haven't had it T4'ed yet I have plugged it in and it works, although it shows the following errors:

trip distance "err" - I think this is to be expected until it is T4'ed
Self levelling suspension error - my car doesn't have self levelling suspension
traction control error - my car doesn't have traction control

Over on .org, Keith said that the T4 will set the codes in the IPK to those of your my car, so those errors should disappear.

Now for some questions:

Is it possible to have the Message Centre display without the trip computer? I always thought they were one in the same , but 1 or 2 members here seem to have the dot matrix display but no stalk button. I have also seen at least one IPK on eBay that lists a part number that shows "less trip computer" on the EPC but clearly has the dot matrix display.
Where does the button on the stalk connect to? Several contributors have said that "any switch will do". I plan on using one of the redundant CC buttons on my wheel for controlling the message centre. I though that there would be a "spare" connector on the steering column to connect to the stalk connector but I have checked and there isn't. Both CC buttons give +12V on the rotary coupler when pressed, so I will use a relay or transistor switch to emulate the stalk button. The other spare button I hope to use as a kind of "shift" button for my CarPC i.e. double up the ICE controls for CarPC functions.. But thats another project....
Johndotcom mentioned that some IPKs have an extra display for traction control info etc and that these are different to others. If this is the case, then keep an eye on eBay because I may have a problem!

Finally, how long should it take on T4 to get the new IPK programmed? I just found out that my nearest MGR dealer no longer has a T4 so I will have to drive about 60 miles to have it done. I would like to have as much info as possible before I go so as not to be fobbed off with some excuse from an unknown dealer.

Thanks Guys.

CDTi · 26th March 2007, 20:55

After spending several hours looking at Rave, Owners and Haynes manuals, I can now answer some of my own questions:

1. Is it possible to have the Message Centre display without the trip computer? I always thought they were one in the same , but 1 or 2 members here seem to have the dot matrix display but no stalk button. I have also seen at least one IPK on eBay that lists a part number that shows "less trip computer" on the EPC but clearly has the dot matrix display.

Rave and the Owners Handbook clearly state that there are only two types of clusters i.e. those with the dot matrix display and those without. I cannot explain the discrepancies cited in my question

Where does the button on the stalk connect to? Several contributors have said that "any switch will do". I plan on using one of the redundant CC buttons on my wheel for controlling the message centre. I though that there would be a "spare" connector on the steering column to connect to the stalk connector but I have checked and there isn't.
Pin 9 on IPK plug C233 is the stalk input button. The cable colour should be yellow/black. This should be grounded when the stalk button is pressed. The stalk switch is C0036 with pin 1 at ground and pin 4 connected to pin 9 on the IPK. So if I want to use a CC switch I can either use a simple transistor switch to invert the +12V on the rotary coupler (pins 4 or 5) or change the wiring inside the steering wheel so that the switches give 0V.

Nothing on Q3 yet or on how long it should take.

All this work may be in vain, however as I am having great difficulty in finding a MGR garage with a T4 (see http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...ad.php?t=4288). Fingers crossed

Phil · 26th March 2007, 21:01

I think Keith said his V8 had the message centre without the button and had limited functionality.

Zeb · 26th March 2007, 21:05

Mine has the message centre and no stalk button too...

Phil · 26th March 2007, 21:09

I'm sure Keith just changed the stalk with one with the button and full functionality followed.

Keith · 26th March 2007, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil

I think Keith said his V8 had the message centre without the button and had limited functionality.

Yep when I bought it I noticed it had the Hi-Line instruments fitted but no button. Soon sorted that out, got a stalk with button for free from a local guy breaking a car.

As for how long, it takes T4 about 5 minutes to rewrite to the new cluster set up time will be longer though.

Re 3 the message centre is just a matrix it will show whatever is sent to it based on the cars coding

Simon · 26th March 2007, 21:51

If I recall, quite a few cars are fitted with the "Message Centre" IPK as part of the HighLine or Lo-Line SatNav options. This does not mean you have the trip computer (aka Button on stalk) feature too. This "Trip Computer" is another option that (as a new car) you could have ordered.

If you have a HighLine instrument cluster (ie those with LoLine/HighLine setups etc) and you do not have a Trip Computer, all you need to do is source a suitable stalk with the button on the end, fitting this will give you full trip computer functionality.

Somethings to note, however:
1. If you have a V8, then the Trip Computer has limited functionality - you can't do anything about this, it's just the way the V8's are.
2. Fitting a second-hand IPK into a car is nigh-on impossible due to the IPK's are VIN-coded to your car plus they contain mileage data. A second-hand IPK will simply refuse to work properly in anything other than the car it was originally fitted too.

Once you have your brand-new IPK you can indeed get it set-up on T4. The dealer will probably charge you an hours labour because that is the usual minium rate and standard practice. The time taken though should only be a few minutes. All is needed is to download the data from your original IPK (using T4), fit the new IPK and then upload your cars data to the new IPK.

All that is then needed is to either find a second-hand stalk (don't bother with a brand new one, they are silly silly money) or use a suitable button as an alternative as CDTi has suggested.

Hope this helps

EDIT: Beaten to the reply by Keith, who seems to have said all I said but much shorter... Doh!

Keith · 26th March 2007, 22:00

Not quite Simon, T4 can't download diddly!
It is actually even easier, bolt in new IKE plug in T4 it throws a wobbly stating Vin mismatches blah blah etc.

It should Identify IKE is incorrectly coded to the car and offer to recode it.
Provided IKE is new or has <100 miles on it (or something like that) it reads the cars ZCS codes all identical and stored in half a dozen ECUs and writes them to the new IKE. It also reads the cars mileage from the backup held in the LSM and writes that, job done

That is my understanding anyway

Simon · 26th March 2007, 22:05

Ah well, even easier then.

The information I got was just accumilated from various sources so I stand corrected

Initial problem (well, not problem but more investment) is the outlay for a new (or nearly-new) IPK. They don't come cheap the last time I looked....

Keith · 26th March 2007, 22:13

there is another possibilty
Getting a matching LSM and IKE from the same car and just accepting the mileage they contain

24th March 2007, 22:00	#1
CDTi This is my second home No longer in the MGR club Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tipperary Posts: 3,933 Thanks: 35 Thanked 51 Times in 35 Posts	Retrofit Message Centre - definitive answers There seems to be a lot of interest in this retrofit and there are numerous threads both here and on .org on the subject. I have just spent several hours reading threads on both sites and I am now more confused than when I started . I've started this thread here to try and get all the info in one place. (Mods can delete my previous thread http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...ead.php?t=4095 as more info will hopefully be posted here) OK, here goes – I have a facelift CDTi Classic SE without a message centre IPK. I just bought a message centre IPK from eBay for £102. It was listed as new and should be a bargain if it can be programmed to my car. When temporarily fitted to my car it showed 00000000 miles, so I believe it is new. The EPC shows the following IPKs for my VIN number: MPH, trip computer YAC112393N MPH, trip computer YAC003790LNF MPH - High Line YAC003630LNF MPH - High Line YAC003890LNF MPH - Low Line YAC003650LNF MPH - Low Line YAC003910LNF The part number I bought is YAC003790LNF. Mike gave me further info on that part as follows (thanks Mike) Instruments - Diesel. YAC003790LNF Instrument pack - MPH, amber, panel illumination, trip computer Attributes From Year/Prefix 3D From VIN 281592 While I haven't had it T4'ed yet I have plugged it in and it works, although it shows the following errors: trip distance "err" - I think this is to be expected until it is T4'ed Self levelling suspension error - my car doesn't have self levelling suspension traction control error - my car doesn't have traction control Over on .org, Keith said that the T4 will set the codes in the IPK to those of your my car, so those errors should disappear. Now for some questions: Is it possible to have the Message Centre display without the trip computer? I always thought they were one in the same , but 1 or 2 members here seem to have the dot matrix display but no stalk button. I have also seen at least one IPK on eBay that lists a part number that shows "less trip computer" on the EPC but clearly has the dot matrix display. Where does the button on the stalk connect to? Several contributors have said that "any switch will do". I plan on using one of the redundant CC buttons on my wheel for controlling the message centre. I though that there would be a "spare" connector on the steering column to connect to the stalk connector but I have checked and there isn't. Both CC buttons give +12V on the rotary coupler when pressed, so I will use a relay or transistor switch to emulate the stalk button. The other spare button I hope to use as a kind of "shift" button for my CarPC i.e. double up the ICE controls for CarPC functions.. But thats another project.... Johndotcom mentioned that some IPKs have an extra display for traction control info etc and that these are different to others. If this is the case, then keep an eye on eBay because I may have a problem! Finally, how long should it take on T4 to get the new IPK programmed? I just found out that my nearest MGR dealer no longer has a T4 so I will have to drive about 60 miles to have it done. I would like to have as much info as possible before I go so as not to be fobbed off with some excuse from an unknown dealer. Thanks Guys. __________________ 'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. Last edited by CDTi; 25th March 2007 at 23:33..

26th March 2007, 20:55	#2
CDTi This is my second home No longer in the MGR club Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tipperary Posts: 3,933 Thanks: 35 Thanked 51 Times in 35 Posts	After spending several hours looking at Rave, Owners and Haynes manuals, I can now answer some of my own questions: 1. Is it possible to have the Message Centre display without the trip computer? I always thought they were one in the same , but 1 or 2 members here seem to have the dot matrix display but no stalk button. I have also seen at least one IPK on eBay that lists a part number that shows "less trip computer" on the EPC but clearly has the dot matrix display. Rave and the Owners Handbook clearly state that there are only two types of clusters i.e. those with the dot matrix display and those without. I cannot explain the discrepancies cited in my question Where does the button on the stalk connect to? Several contributors have said that "any switch will do". I plan on using one of the redundant CC buttons on my wheel for controlling the message centre. I though that there would be a "spare" connector on the steering column to connect to the stalk connector but I have checked and there isn't. Pin 9 on IPK plug C233 is the stalk input button. The cable colour should be yellow/black. This should be grounded when the stalk button is pressed. The stalk switch is C0036 with pin 1 at ground and pin 4 connected to pin 9 on the IPK. So if I want to use a CC switch I can either use a simple transistor switch to invert the +12V on the rotary coupler (pins 4 or 5) or change the wiring inside the steering wheel so that the switches give 0V. Nothing on Q3 yet or on how long it should take. All this work may be in vain, however as I am having great difficulty in finding a MGR garage with a T4 (see http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/foru...ad.php?t=4288). Fingers crossed __________________ 'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

26th March 2007, 21:01	#3
Phil This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Connoisseur SE Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 12,227 Thanks: 469 Thanked 523 Times in 241 Posts	I think Keith said his V8 had the message centre without the button and had limited functionality. __________________

26th March 2007, 21:09	#5
Phil This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Connoisseur SE Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 12,227 Thanks: 469 Thanked 523 Times in 241 Posts	I'm sure Keith just changed the stalk with one with the button and full functionality followed. __________________

26th March 2007, 21:51	#7
Simon Banned - Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: - Posts: 10,318 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	If I recall, quite a few cars are fitted with the "Message Centre" IPK as part of the HighLine or Lo-Line SatNav options. This does not mean you have the trip computer (aka Button on stalk) feature too. This "Trip Computer" is another option that (as a new car) you could have ordered. If you have a HighLine instrument cluster (ie those with LoLine/HighLine setups etc) and you do not have a Trip Computer, all you need to do is source a suitable stalk with the button on the end, fitting this will give you full trip computer functionality. Somethings to note, however: 1. If you have a V8, then the Trip Computer has limited functionality - you can't do anything about this, it's just the way the V8's are. 2. Fitting a second-hand IPK into a car is nigh-on impossible due to the IPK's are VIN-coded to your car plus they contain mileage data. A second-hand IPK will simply refuse to work properly in anything other than the car it was originally fitted too. Once you have your brand-new IPK you can indeed get it set-up on T4. The dealer will probably charge you an hours labour because that is the usual minium rate and standard practice. The time taken though should only be a few minutes. All is needed is to download the data from your original IPK (using T4), fit the new IPK and then upload your cars data to the new IPK. All that is then needed is to either find a second-hand stalk (don't bother with a brand new one, they are silly silly money) or use a suitable button as an alternative as CDTi has suggested. Hope this helps EDIT: Beaten to the reply by Keith, who seems to have said all I said but much shorter... Doh! Last edited by Simon; 26th March 2007 at 21:52.. Reason: Beaten to it by Keith

26th March 2007, 21:05	#4
Zeb Banned MGZT V8 & ZTT 190+LPG Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8,089 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mine has the message centre and no stalk button too...

26th March 2007, 22:00	#8
Keith This is my second home ZT400 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ellesmere Posts: 5,948 Thanks: 0 Thanked 43 Times in 29 Posts	Not quite Simon, T4 can't download diddly! It is actually even easier, bolt in new IKE plug in T4 it throws a wobbly stating Vin mismatches blah blah etc. It should Identify IKE is incorrectly coded to the car and offer to recode it. Provided IKE is new or has <100 miles on it (or something like that) it reads the cars ZCS codes all identical and stored in half a dozen ECUs and writes them to the new IKE. It also reads the cars mileage from the backup held in the LSM and writes that, job done That is my understanding anyway

26th March 2007, 22:05	#9
Simon Banned - Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: - Posts: 10,318 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	Ah well, even easier then. The information I got was just accumilated from various sources so I stand corrected Initial problem (well, not problem but more investment) is the outlay for a new (or nearly-new) IPK. They don't come cheap the last time I looked....

26th March 2007, 22:13	#10
Keith This is my second home ZT400 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ellesmere Posts: 5,948 Thanks: 0 Thanked 43 Times in 29 Posts	there is another possibilty Getting a matching LSM and IKE from the same car and just accepting the mileage they contain