Shill Bidding on Ebay?

[davidbooker]

I have just bought a petrol fan motor for my 2.5 75 on Ebay. It had a "Buy it Now" (BIN) price of £250, but I decided to make a lower bid of £185, thereby starting the auction. Along came "Bidder2", with good feedback, who made several bids, which took it up to about £220. Fair enough.

He made no further offers, but two days before the auction completed, a new bidder (Bidder3) arrived. He was brand new to Ebay, and had no feedback, and I suspect him of being a shill bidder. He made just one bid, which forced me to raise my offer to £245. Immediately afterwards, the same seller placed an identical fan on Ebay at the much lower BIN price of £195, with an option to "make an offer".

Naturally, I would have gone for this much better deal had I not been left high and dry by "Bidder3". Interestingly, neither of these bidders bought the £195 item, so why had they bothered to force my bids up? The auction closed two days later, and I had no option but to pay the £245.

The fact that the same firm is filtering identical items (diesel fan motors as well) onto Ebay at widely differing prices and terms, suggests that there are two or more sales employees competing for commission or other incentives, and are not averse to effectively "rigging" the market by collusive actions, such as shill bidding - which is strictly illegal on Ebay.

I have no wish to be accused of libel, so I won't name names, but has anybody else had any experience of this phenomenon? I strongly object to having to pay £50 over the odds because of sharp practice.

I have reported the matter to Ebay.

Regards, David

[Roverowner]

:lol:

Originally Posted by davidbooker

I have just bought a petrol fan motor for my 2.5 75 on Ebay. It had a "Buy it Now" (BIN) price of £250, but I decided to make a lower bid of £185, thereby starting the auction. Along came "Bidder2", with good feedback, who made several bids, which took it up to about £220. Fair enough.

He made no further offers, but two days before the auction completed, a new bidder (Bidder3) arrived. He was brand new to Ebay, and had no feedback, and I suspect him of being a shill bidder. He made just one bid, which forced me to raise my offer to £245. Immediately afterwards, the same seller placed an identical fan on Ebay at the much lower BIN price of £195, with an option to "make an offer".

Naturally, I would have gone for this much better deal had I not been left high and dry by "Bidder3". Interestingly, neither of these bidders bought the £195 item, so why had they bothered to force my bids up? The auction closed two days later, and I had no option but to pay the £245.

The fact that the same firm is filtering identical items (diesel fan motors as well) onto Ebay at widely differing prices and terms, suggests that there are two or more sales employees competing for commission or other incentives, and are not averse to effectively "rigging" the market by collusive actions, such as shill bidding - which is strictly illegal on Ebay.

I have no wish to be accused of libel, so I won't name names, but has anybody else had any experience of this phenomenon? I strongly object to having to pay £50 over the odds because of sharp practice.

I have reported the matter to Ebay.

Regards, David

This sort of thing has happened to me on a few occasions. I always set a maximum for myself (don´t understand -forced me to raise my offer-). When I back off they usually come back with a -second chance- because the oringinal -winner- couldn´t pay or some other balony. I never take them up on it, let them stew. Another item will always turn up. It´s a buyers market if you hadn´t noticed! Alan:lol:

[ragitty]

I totally agree with Roverowner

[NikTheGeek]

The other con is someone comes along and sees an item currently at £90.00 and bids £990.00. That immediately shows what the highest bidder had bid and the rouge bidder is in the lead. The rouge bidder then "cancels" his bid because of his "error" (he meant to bid £99.00 not £990.00, honest) but he now knows what the highest amount is...! So his mate can step in and win.

So if you've ever been outbid, just to find you are still the highest bidder, you now know why! And you can't prove it wasn't an error...

[davidbooker]

(don´t understand -forced me to raise my offer-).

"Forced" maybe the wrong phraseology, perhaps "manoeuvred" would be a better term.

At that moment, this was the only suitable fan on Ebay, and I had set my limit at £250, so £245 did not seem too bad. However, as soon as I put the £245 bid in, the other (much cheaper) fan came on the market.

Had it come on the market five minutes earlier, when my leading bid stood at £220, I could still not have bought the new item, but I would certainly have gone for it when the shill bidder made his offer, and then he would would have been stuffed - but then that could not possibly have happened, because the seller and shill bidder were in collusion, so I paid at least £25 more than necessary because of a practice deemed illegal by Ebay - see what I mean?

Business is to crime as religion is to superstition

[JP53]

If you are sure in your own mind that there is a fiddle going on and you have not paid for the item, set up a second account and buy the cheaper fan. Don't buy the other one because.....your child bid, your car as now been stolen, you have just been made redundant or some other excuse. Treat them how they have treated you.

[Roverowner]

Originally Posted by JP53

If you are sure in your own mind that there is a fiddle going on and you have not paid for the item, set up a second account and buy the cheaper fan. Don't buy the other one because.....your child bid, your car as now been stolen, you have just been made redundant or some other excuse. Treat them how they have treated you.

Wouldn´t really recomend that, as it makes, in effect, you as bad as them - and I know your not! Moral of the story is: Make sure that you bid what you think is the right price for you. I´ve paid double for a thing that came out again shortly after. Luck of the draw. I made the original bid - nobody else.
If you lie to get ´round it and are found out ....... Is it worth it. My good name is worth a lot more than a fan. Alan:lol:

[davidbooker]

If you are sure in your own mind that there is a fiddle going on and you have not paid for the item, set up a second account and buy the cheaper fan. Don't buy the other one because.....your child bid, your car as now been stolen, you have just been made redundant or some other excuse. Treat them how they have treated you.

Thanks John. Being an honourable man (sorry if that sounds pompous these days), I felt bound to pay them - unfortunately, two wrongs don't make a right, and they may just be innocent.....however, vast experience of life, and frequently being at the wrong end of sharp business practices, combined with my acquired and innate cynicism, the signs are all telling me that I have been the victim of a scam, but I cannot prove it on my own.

However, I have reported the matter to Ebay, and they have methods of sniffing out wrongdoing, like digging into the identity of Bidder3, for instance. They may well not proceed for such relatively trifling sums, and I will probably hear nothing more about any investigation, but if the firm suddenly stops trading on Ebay, then I will feel vindicated.

As I said, there is a small chance that they may be innocent, and Bidder3 may just be some newbie chancer surfing Ebay trying to cause consternation and havoc on legitimate auctions out of sheer ******-mindedness. If you were in his shoes, would you place a bid on what must be an incredibly obscure and expensive item to most laymen, risking the chance of winning a component exclusively intended for a car you probably do not own? I don't think so........

Regards, David

[Roverowner]

-two wrongs don't make a right, and they may just be innocent.....-

There you go....... Alan

[davidbooker]

Originally Posted by Roverowner

-two wrongs don't make a right, and they may just be innocent.....-

There you go....... Alan

One of the tenets of British justice is that a person is innocent until proven guilty. I live by this philosophy, and I am doing nothing more than making allegations against an unidentified trader and bidder, with a view to the legal bods at Ebay providing the proof, if it exists - probably a forlorn hope, either way.

There, how magnanimous is that, Roverowner?