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Old 7th March 2018, 14:25   #11
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Ah, someone mentioned the advantages of Brexit.
I have got a postage stamp in front of me, and am writing as much as I can - funny thing is I still have plenty of room to write, but have run out of ideas!!
Also, Brexit has its own 'inconvenient truth' - the Northern Ireland/Republic of Ireland Border issue.
Of technology will solve that - just hope it's more reliable than my broadband!
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Old 7th March 2018, 14:56   #12
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Originally Posted by solarsailor View Post
I'd just like to comment on a few points already made before I give my own thoughts.



This is a common misconception. Any regulation is put into law by the UK government and not the EU, as Brussels has no authority to 'impose' regulations on us - or any other EU country for that matter.



That is quite simply untrue, as the UK is allowed to trade with any country it chooses. However we do have to comply with EU (as well as WTO) regulations which, to try and simplify a complex issue, means that we can't negotiate a deal with a non-EU country which is more advantageous to us than it is to the other EU member states.



I think the OP is referring to trade within the EU. Any manufacturer or producer of goods has to pay the relevant taxes to its own government (e.g. VAT and any others that apply to a business). After that the goods can be sent to all other EU countries without the need to pay any additional duties or taxation - that's the whole point of the single market.

My own thoughts on the subject:

My best understanding is that in order to retain the current trade deals we have with the other member states after the UK leaves the EU, we'd need to stay in the single market. To be part of the single market would also require remaining in the customs union and continuing to allow free movement of EU nationals, which I personally believe would be the sensible option for the UK's future prosperity.

If we don't stay in the single market once outside of the EU (44% of our export market) it's likely that tariffs under MFN (most favoured nation) rules set out by the WTO would apply, meaning our exporters would become less price competitive and lose business. Likewise, WTO tariffs would be applied to goods we import from the EU - currenty 53% of our total imports - making them more expensive. It's my belief that the combination of both would lead to soaring prices due to runaway inflation. Three of the main policies to control inflation are high interest rates, increased taxation and wage control. Anyone fancy that?

Of course there will be supporters of a 'hard' Brexit, particularly in government, who will argue that if we dump the single market we'll be free to trade with China, the USA and a host of other countries under WTO rules without having to also comply with EU legislation. What they'll fail to mention is that such deals take years to negotiate, by which time the UK economy could (and probably would) be well and truly shafted.

I'm not I favour of allow free movement of EU nationals for work.
please do not misinterpret this :-
we have enough British people unemployed and I am frustrated that people from a foreign country come here, speak a second language, English and get a job. That is not an anti foreigner comment!

Our unemployed (fit and able) should be pushed into work, they may not like the job but it's work and they are not then such a burden to government. Of course this is easy to say, putting it into practice is something else. Allow in the people with the skills we don't have but we don't need multi drop drivers, cleaners, waiters, shop staff, services engineers we have people here that can do this work.

Try to make sure we have employment in the right areas not just in the south. we don't need foreign call centres, lets have them UK based with UK staff.

Full marks must go to those from other countries that come here, speak a second language and get a job, shame our own cannot or will not do it.
Problem is also wages, some jobs are minimum wage, that is just not enough and how others do it is beyond me but prices are such that I feel 2 people on minimum wage will live hand to mouth, dole is better. We have to make it worth while working and if you top up minimum wage with state money then will jobs remain or increase at minimum wage?
We have those unable to work, this is not a swipe at them


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Old 7th March 2018, 15:21   #13
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Never heard of the British Empire? ^^^^^ 200 years occupation of India?


The problem now is the government have to be straight with people and we all have to face up to the fact that we will all be much poorer..


IMO we need a second referendum..
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Old 7th March 2018, 16:06   #14
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Originally Posted by rustymotor View Post
...

IMO we need a second referendum..
It will be - just be patient.
Maximum an year or two after the real Brexit.

That`s why I`m buying frantically everything possible for mine John`s from the UK now
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Old 7th March 2018, 17:00   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solarsailor View Post
.......

.

My own thoughts on the subject:

My best understanding is that in order to retain the current trade deals we have with the other member states after the UK leaves the EU, we'd need to stay in the single market. To be part of the single market would also require remaining in the customs union and continuing to allow free movement of EU nationals, which I personally believe would be the sensible option for the UK's future prosperity.

If we don't stay in the single market once outside of the EU (44% of our export market) it's likely that tariffs under MFN (most favoured nation) rules set out by the WTO would apply, meaning our exporters would become less price competitive and lose business. Likewise, WTO tariffs would be applied to goods we import from the EU - currenty 53% of our total imports - making them more expensive. It's my belief that the combination of both would lead to soaring prices due to runaway inflation. Three of the main policies to control inflation are high interest rates, increased taxation and wage control. Anyone fancy that?

Of course there will be supporters of a 'hard' Brexit, particularly in government, who will argue that if we dump the single market we'll be free to trade with China, the USA and a host of other countries under WTO rules without having to also comply with EU legislation. What they'll fail to mention is that such deals take years to negotiate, by which time the UK economy could (and probably would) be well and truly shafted.

This discussion on Economics and related matters.
Generally: Your own views as stated are entirely economics based and follow exactly the rationale given by noted and biased (to say the least) opponents of the move.

Their assessments have been dismissed as guesswork by a variety of commentators who refer to multiple previous predictions of gloom which all have failed to materialise – that’s predictions of what would happen in the two years leading up to the event and thereby establishing their reliability!

There is strong belief that they will be likely to be as reliable at guessing what will happen after the event as they have been before it.
For instance, in just the latest indication of future developments, last week it was announced that BMW – yes, that German behemoth – is to build its latest MPV in northern England! And is investing billions in a new factory! They have said they have full confidence in the future of UK trading prospects!

There have been several such declarations of late along with the queue already forming for trade talks – mysteriously not widely covered by the likes of the BBC etc. Guesswork is the management of hoped-for bad news and has no valid currency in such a complex issue.

If I may say you seem transfixed in the headlights of there being a ‘hard’ exit. From recent announcements from Barnier/Juncker/Tusk and speeches by UK government it seems far more likely that a realisation of what will benefit both parties has already broken out. Again, scarcely mentioned in full by the BBC!

To finish, economics are just one important subject. Another is a seldom discussed but equally important one. In fact, to many people, probably more important. The question of self-determination has received no, or very little, public discussion. The depth of feeling and resolve is wide and deep. An examination of this is easier, and more likely, to achieve a consensus than using the crystal ball from a fairground tent.
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Old 7th March 2018, 17:22   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wraymond View Post
This discussion on Economics and related matters.
Generally: Your own views as stated are entirely economics based and follow exactly the rationale given by noted and biased (to say the least) opponents of the move.

Their assessments have been dismissed as guesswork by a variety of commentators who refer to multiple previous predictions of gloom which all have failed to materialise – that’s predictions of what would happen in the two years leading up to the event and thereby establishing their reliability!

There is strong belief that they will be likely to be as reliable at guessing what will happen after the event as they have been before it.
For instance, in just the latest indication of future developments, last week it was announced that BMW – yes, that German behemoth – is to build its latest MPV in northern England! And is investing billions in a new factory! They have said they have full confidence in the future of UK trading prospects!

There have been several such declarations of late along with the queue already forming for trade talks – mysteriously not widely covered by the likes of the BBC etc. Guesswork is the management of hoped-for bad news and has no valid currency in such a complex issue.

If I may say you seem transfixed in the headlights of there being a ‘hard’ exit. From recent announcements from Barnier/Juncker/Tusk and speeches by UK government it seems far more likely that a realisation of what will benefit both parties has already broken out. Again, scarcely mentioned in full by the BBC!

To finish, economics are just one important subject. Another is a seldom discussed but equally important one. In fact, to many people, probably more important. The question of self-determination has received no, or very little, public discussion. The depth of feeling and resolve is wide and deep. An examination of this is easier, and more likely, to achieve a consensus than using the crystal ball from a fairground tent.
A. the predicted 'crash' didn't happen immediately - but it is happening in a more subtle way.

B. BMW will be wagering we see sense.

C. Self determination...... hmmmmm, people like that in theory until it means getting off their bottoms and doing something. That to be honest is why this won't work, young bright educated people (ie the future) don't want to be trapped in Little Britain and the people that do don't actually want to do any work despite what they may say. To be honest anyone over 50 (that includes me) shouldn't get to vote on something this big with regards to a future most of us won't live long enough to see.
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Old 7th March 2018, 18:54   #17
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Originally Posted by mystabe View Post
A. the predicted 'crash' didn't happen immediately - but it is happening in a more subtle way.

B. BMW will be wagering we see sense.

C. Self determination...... hmmmmm, people like that in theory until it means getting off their bottoms and doing something. That to be honest is why this won't work, young bright educated people (ie the future) don't want to be trapped in Little Britain and the people that do don't actually want to do any work despite what they may say. To be honest anyone over 50 (that includes me) shouldn't get to vote on something this big with regards to a future most of us won't live long enough to see.


A. In what subtle way?

B. More guesswork, and possibly hoping for the worst? By the way, the money is already spent!

C. 1. They did get off their bottoms, 17.4 million of them! They voted to make their government do what they are supposed to do, that is to put their wishes into practice.

2. Little Britain? Think Great Britain! Unemployment is at its lowest for many years – the lowest in Europe - who is it that doesn’t want to work?

3. That takes the biscuit! Anyone over 50 shouldn’t get the vote?! You can set your clock back 200 years if you want to, try getting that on the statute book! How depressing.
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Old 7th March 2018, 19:36   #18
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I say again - the U.K. CANNOT as a current EU member state sign it’s own trade deals.

If anyone thinks we can then please present your evidence.

Setting up trade deals is not going to be easy. But as a famous fictional character said

“It is time to decide to to what is right - or what is easy!”

As for the total nonsence of the predicted crash post Brexit being so slow we are simply not able to discern that it is happening!!!!! - my goodness that gave me a laugh!

Thanks for that.

Much appreciated.
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Old 7th March 2018, 19:46   #19
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A. In what subtle way?

B. More guesswork, and possibly hoping for the worst? By the way, the money is already spent!

C. 1. They did get off their bottoms, 17.4 million of them! They voted to make their government do what they are supposed to do, that is to put their wishes into practice.

2. Little Britain? Think Great Britain! Unemployment is at its lowest for many years – the lowest in Europe - who is it that doesn’t want to work?

3. That takes the biscuit! Anyone over 50 shouldn’t get the vote?! You can set your clock back 200 years if you want to, try getting that on the statute book! How depressing.
Once again I find myself nodding in full agreement Wraymond.

Particularly over point C / 3

People over 50 should not be given the vote!

It’s the same hubris that came out from the Remainers that those that voted for Brexit only did so because they were less well educated because only the ill-educated could possibly vote to leave.....

The arrogance!
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Old 7th March 2018, 21:06   #20
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I 100% stand by my over 50 comment, it's not for us to decide something like this that will effect young people much more than it will us.

Disagree and call me all the names you want.
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