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Old 25th April 2019, 22:25   #1
Phil
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Default New camera.... Help/advice required....

Hello,

I've started a new thread about this as I've now chosen and bought a new camera...


After much careful consideration, I decided that the Canon 6D mark 2 was the best for me.


I did a lot of research and the decision was not taken lightly.

Anyway, as weather sealing was a must, I decided that I would get an "L" lens to mount to it. I decided on a 24-70 F4L. It has great reviews and should compliment my new camera well.

I did some searching to see what deals were about.

It looks like to get brand new in a shop, I wouldn't get much change out of £2000.

I found a company, in the UK who would sell this to me for £1600.

UK company, next day delivery, good reviews, all seems great.

To be doubly safe I was getting what I thought I was, I sent them an email and asked:
"Can you confirm if this is a genuine brand new UK model in original Canon packaging?"

The reply was:
"Yes it is Philip"

Based on this, I bought it.
It turned up today, as promised. Well packed etc. Seamless so far.

I opened the box, all going well.
Looked at the camera box and there was a sticker that had been ripped off the front of the box. This annoyed me a bit because I like to keep the original boxes of expensive equipment.
I opened the box and the owners manuals were all there, in English including warranty registration cards.
The manual was a bit crumpled, which again annoyed me.

I put the battery onto charge and put everything back in the box. I was going to play tomorrow.

So, as a matter of curiosity, I decided to look on the Canon UK website and checked the serial number.
Guess what, it's not a UK official import.

Now, what would you do?
It has a two year warranty, which being honest, I'm unlikely to need. This two year warranty, so it seems is not with Canon, but with the seller......

I could send it back, but it will cost me another £400 to get a UK product, which actually is probably no different at all.

So, please, what would you do? I need advice!

The camera is made in Japan, I doubt Canon are going to make poor quality cameras for one region over another, so I am confident it's the same thing I would get from a high street shop over here.

Furthermore, if I had gone to Japan or wherever and was planning on buying a new camera and saw it over there for £400 less than the UK, I would have almost definitely bought it, but the issue I have is the fact I was lied to.

I imagine if I dispute it it won't be easy.
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Old 26th April 2019, 00:08   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Hello,

I've started a new thread about this as I've now chosen and bought a new camera...


After much careful consideration, I decided that the Canon 6D mark 2 was the best for me.


I did a lot of research and the decision was not taken lightly.

Anyway, as weather sealing was a must, I decided that I would get an "L" lens to mount to it. I decided on a 24-70 F4L. It has great reviews and should compliment my new camera well.

I did some searching to see what deals were about.

It looks like to get brand new in a shop, I wouldn't get much change out of £2000.

I found a company, in the UK who would sell this to me for £1600.

UK company, next day delivery, good reviews, all seems great.

To be doubly safe I was getting what I thought I was, I sent them an email and asked:
"Can you confirm if this is a genuine brand new UK model in original Canon packaging?"

The reply was:
"Yes it is Philip"

Based on this, I bought it.
It turned up today, as promised. Well packed etc. Seamless so far.

I opened the box, all going well.
Looked at the camera box and there was a sticker that had been ripped off the front of the box. This annoyed me a bit because I like to keep the original boxes of expensive equipment.
I opened the box and the owners manuals were all there, in English including warranty registration cards.
The manual was a bit crumpled, which again annoyed me.

I put the battery onto charge and put everything back in the box. I was going to play tomorrow.

So, as a matter of curiosity, I decided to look on the Canon UK website and checked the serial number.
Guess what, it's not a UK official import.

Now, what would you do?
It has a two year warranty, which being honest, I'm unlikely to need. This two year warranty, so it seems is not with Canon, but with the seller......

I could send it back, but it will cost me another £400 to get a UK product, which actually is probably no different at all.

So, please, what would you do? I need advice!

The camera is made in Japan, I doubt Canon are going to make poor quality cameras for one region over another, so I am confident it's the same thing I would get from a high street shop over here.

Furthermore, if I had gone to Japan or wherever and was planning on buying a new camera and saw it over there for £400 less than the UK, I would have almost definitely bought it, but the issue I have is the fact I was lied to.

I imagine if I dispute it it won't be easy.
Unfortunately this reads as though you have a grey import. Unfortunately is the wrong word to be honest, as grey imports are not bad things, it is just Canon UK may not honour any manufacturer warranty, and any claim may have to be handled via the dealer (your contract is always with the dealer anyway, and as such they are legally obliged to honour it - at least a year anyway). They may choose have it repaired by a local repair shop, or send it to Canon (Japan/USA or wherever), which was the way it used be handled. In the mid noughties, the large UK retailers sought support from the large manufacturers to deal with grey imports, but due to our duties/taxes they could not offer financial support(regarding pricing at least). So they arranged it so that grey import warranties would not be covered by the UK subsidiaries. This meant at the time, some warranties were very limited, in both what they covered and time. (this is what we were advised at the time when we were getting hammered with hardware sale competition from foreign e-tailers)

I would not be concerned if it is a grey import (2 year warranty on a Canon is normally a giveaway), as it is still a quality product, and built to the same standards, in fact should be identical to a UK bought product.

Your question to them in my mind was not direct enough and therefore their answer could be interpreted as correct. It is a camera made for the UK market, as it is identical to a UK camera. I do not think there are any variations worldwide on dual and single digit models (1D, 5D 6d 50D 80D etc). Likewise it may have been opened for display purposes, or demonstration. It could still be classed as brand new, just not sealed. In my past life we have opened boxes to check contents or compare etc. Test the camera by searching for ACTUATION COUNT, which should tell you its life.

Additionally, check the condition of the sensor, by placing it on a table, setting the lens to manual focus, focus to infinity, set to 'A' and set the aperture to its minimum (largest number f29?). Switch on the timer release for 2 or 10 seconds, and set the exposure compensation for +1/2 or +1. Put a piece of white paper or card about 8-10" from the lens and take a shot. The resulting image should show any marks on the sensor and possibly on the lens itself depending on where you have zoomed to (which you can experiment with).

I too like to keep the boxes, still have them for my bought new lenses and cameras, and the instruction pack is still sealed for the camera. Canon instructions packs used to come in a sealed pack with the software disc(s).

I would do the tests above, and if they check out, either content myself with saving £400, or request a sealed instruction pack. If they didnt check out, then get back in contact with them, and I believe you can use consumer contracts regulations to request a return and refund - check out their terms of sale for the full details, but I believe you have a minimum of 14 days to arrange this. The Which guide is HERE.
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Old 26th April 2019, 09:22   #3
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Unfortunately this reads as though you have a grey import. Unfortunately is the wrong word to be honest, as grey imports are not bad things, it is just Canon UK may not honour any manufacturer warranty, and any claim may have to be handled via the dealer (your contract is always with the dealer anyway, and as such they are legally obliged to honour it - at least a year anyway). They may choose have it repaired by a local repair shop, or send it to Canon (Japan/USA or wherever), which was the way it used be handled. In the mid noughties, the large UK retailers sought support from the large manufacturers to deal with grey imports, but due to our duties/taxes they could not offer financial support(regarding pricing at least). So they arranged it so that grey import warranties would not be covered by the UK subsidiaries. This meant at the time, some warranties were very limited, in both what they covered and time. (this is what we were advised at the time when we were getting hammered with hardware sale competition from foreign e-tailers)

I would not be concerned if it is a grey import (2 year warranty on a Canon is normally a giveaway), as it is still a quality product, and built to the same standards, in fact should be identical to a UK bought product.

Your question to them in my mind was not direct enough and therefore their answer could be interpreted as correct. It is a camera made for the UK market, as it is identical to a UK camera. I do not think there are any variations worldwide on dual and single digit models (1D, 5D 6d 50D 80D etc). Likewise it may have been opened for display purposes, or demonstration. It could still be classed as brand new, just not sealed. In my past life we have opened boxes to check contents or compare etc. Test the camera by searching for ACTUATION COUNT, which should tell you its life.

Additionally, check the condition of the sensor, by placing it on a table, setting the lens to manual focus, focus to infinity, set to 'A' and set the aperture to its minimum (largest number f29?). Switch on the timer release for 2 or 10 seconds, and set the exposure compensation for +1/2 or +1. Put a piece of white paper or card about 8-10" from the lens and take a shot. The resulting image should show any marks on the sensor and possibly on the lens itself depending on where you have zoomed to (which you can experiment with).

I too like to keep the boxes, still have them for my bought new lenses and cameras, and the instruction pack is still sealed for the camera. Canon instructions packs used to come in a sealed pack with the software disc(s).

I would do the tests above, and if they check out, either content myself with saving £400, or request a sealed instruction pack. If they didnt check out, then get back in contact with them, and I believe you can use consumer contracts regulations to request a return and refund - check out their terms of sale for the full details, but I believe you have a minimum of 14 days to arrange this. The Which guide is HERE.
Thank you.

I have sent the seller a polite email informing them that I tried to register it on Canon's website only to be informed that it is from a different region and therefore not possible to register.
I asked what market it was from and how there came to be European paperwork inside the box.

Unfortunately I don't have a cable here that will fit the camera so will have to buy one.

I'm not overly concerned with it being a grey import, it's more the fact that they aren't upfront about it. Just put it in plain English that's easy to understand.
I also don't understand why they have put European paperwork inside if it's useless. It all seems quite dishonest.

I've read online that camera companies won't repair them in the event of failure, even if you pay them to do so if they are from a different region.
(That's why I want to know where it's from so I can send it for repair if it needs it.....)


Now it's here, it's probably not worth all the hassle of returning it, I should probably enjoy the fact I've saved £400 and move on.
If I'd have known that it wasn't a UK model before ordering though, I wouldn't have bought it.
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Old 26th April 2019, 21:36   #4
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The seller and I have been playing email tennis all day and it's gotten to be beyond a joke.

In a nutshell, I wanted to know three things:
  • Why have you sold me a grey import camera when you told me it was a genuine UK destined camera?
    What market was it really destined for so I can register it with them.
    How have European documents ended up inside the box?

At first they replied simply asking me to follow a link to the European Canon website to register it....

I explained that all that link did was allow me to join a mailing list and from there I had checked the serial number and had it confirmed it was not originally intended for Europe..



This went backwards and forwards for some time until they said its not a grey import, its just you can't register it because it's not through their network....

To which I replied, "so it is a grey import then, which is exactly what I asked you before I bought it.

She came back saying that it's not a grey import, if it was it wouldn't have a warranty, a UK plug or English on the camera menu.

I give up!



Despite this, I am going to keep it. It's definitely an import, I wouldn't mind if they were honest from the start, but they haven't been.

The charging plug is clearly not Canon. The lead is about two feet long and the plug looks very poor quality. It has BS marks literally all over it.

The camera and lens though, they are really nice.

It's been raining pretty much all day today so haven't got out with it.
I did take a couple of snaps of the dogs though, inside, no flash, 1/25 shutter speed, F7.1, ISO 6400 and no noise at all.
With my 700D it would have looked a right mess with those settings.
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Old 26th April 2019, 23:48   #5
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The seller and I have been playing email tennis all day and it's gotten to be beyond a joke.

In a nutshell, I wanted to know three things:
  • Why have you sold me a grey import camera when you told me it was a genuine UK destined camera?
    What market was it really destined for so I can register it with them.
    How have European documents ended up inside the box?

At first they replied simply asking me to follow a link to the European Canon website to register it....

I explained that all that link did was allow me to join a mailing list and from there I had checked the serial number and had it confirmed it was not originally intended for Europe..



This went backwards and forwards for some time until they said its not a grey import, its just you can't register it because it's not through their network....

To which I replied, "so it is a grey import then, which is exactly what I asked you before I bought it.

She came back saying that it's not a grey import, if it was it wouldn't have a warranty, a UK plug or English on the camera menu.

I give up!



Despite this, I am going to keep it. It's definitely an import, I wouldn't mind if they were honest from the start, but they haven't been.

The charging plug is clearly not Canon. The lead is about two feet long and the plug looks very poor quality. It has BS marks literally all over it.

This is another telltale of a grey import, the mains plug used to come with a euro two pin to UK adaptor (I know this is not the case this time). But in saying that, the Canon leads I have had were about 2 feet long - I use a Hahnel double battery charger.

The camera and lens though, they are really nice.

It's been raining pretty much all day today so haven't got out with it.
I did take a couple of snaps of the dogs though, inside, no flash, 1/25 shutter speed, F7.1, ISO 6400 and no noise at all.
With my 700D it would have looked a right mess with those settings.
Found THIS website which may be of interest.

On the whole, I wouldnt be overly concerned, especially if you are happy with the results and the price . I reckon Canon UK or another repair agent would still repair any issues if you were to have them out of warranty, but you would pay as anybody would for out of warranty repairs. I cannot recall who we sent Canon repairs to (in and out of warranty was the same), but it was not Canon, although they were authorised to repair Canon. It was only the pro models that went direct to Canon UK. Used to be called Canon Professional Services <- try registering with them.
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Old 27th April 2019, 00:16   #6
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Found THIS website which may be of interest.

On the whole, I wouldnt be overly concerned, especially if you are happy with the results and the price . I reckon Canon UK or another repair agent would still repair any issues if you were to have them out of warranty, but you would pay as anybody would for out of warranty repairs. I cannot recall who we sent Canon repairs to (in and out of warranty was the same), but it was not Canon, although they were authorised to repair Canon. It was only the pro models that went direct to Canon UK. Used to be called Canon Professional Services <- try registering with them.
Thank you. I'm very happy with the camera and lens.
I'm intending to phone Canon UK and see what's what.
Hopefully they will tell me where it actually came from!!
Interesting as you say that you also had two foot long charging cables!
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Old 27th April 2019, 00:20   #7
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Here's a couple of photos from today...
Both taken inside in dark conditions without flash..

ISO was 6400 and a very low shutter speed...

My old pal, Bertie.. by Philip Davies, on Flickr
Let sleeping dogs.... sleep! by Philip Davies, on Flickr
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Old 28th April 2019, 17:07   #8
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Got out yesterday with the camera, no such luck today.

I took images off the camera and started to process the ones I liked in photoshop.
After editing, it has become clear that there are two spots, I assume on the sensor.

They don't appear to be visible before editing. It looks like dust.

I have looked online and it seems to be common and quite normal even with a new camera. I've read that unless you clean your sensor every day most people put up with it and just edit it out, which is what I have been doing anyway.

Is this true?
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Old 28th April 2019, 20:15   #9
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Got out yesterday with the camera, no such luck today.

I took images off the camera and started to process the ones I liked in photoshop.
After editing, it has become clear that there are two spots, I assume on the sensor.

They don't appear to be visible before editing. It looks like dust.

I have looked online and it seems to be common and quite normal even with a new camera. I've read that unless you clean your sensor every day most people put up with it and just edit it out, which is what I have been doing anyway.

Is this true?
Evening Phil, the sensor on my Canon bridge is set up for automatic cleaning before the camera is switched off, a common feature. Have a look in your menus
or see here .....https://www.manualslib.com/manual/12....html?page=455
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Old 28th April 2019, 20:28   #10
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Evening Phil, the sensor on my Canon bridge is set up for automatic cleaning before the camera is switched off, a common feature. Have a look in your menus
or see here .....https://www.manualslib.com/manual/12....html?page=455
Hi Phil,
Yes my 700D did that and my 6D does it too.
I have read that it isn't very successful but who knows.

Actually, I've just processed three images I took afterwards and the spot isn't there....
Maybe it's hidden within a cloud, or it has actually disappeared.
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