How "structural" is the front bumper bar ?

GeraintUK · 13th August 2015, 17:27

The Armature (as it's official name) that goes between both legs on the front of our cars behind the bumper.

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-DPE100670

I'm trying to find out how structural it is for our cars.
On build looking at anyway I can get a bigger intercooler in, and put simply, this bar is the blocker to all attempts.
I was told of a trick where you put too little cuts in the bar and cover with masking tape and if the tape rips then it's structural and if it doesn't then it's not, but as the car isn't running yet, that's a hard theory to work out.

Any thoughts? I know we are surprised just how rigid our cars are but not sure if an alloy bar with 8 bolts is contributing that much or not.

TIA
Geraint

Les4048 · 13th August 2015, 17:32

I'd say it's needed. It's a box not a bar therefore stronger and as it fits between front chassis legs I'd say it was pretty important

KWIL · 13th August 2015, 18:38

Well if it is not there, a small thump dead centre will almost certainly end up IN the engine bay

GeraintUK · 13th August 2015, 18:54

it's alloy don't forget. It's not that strong a material even in box section form.

I know on the face of it it's easy to think it's structural, but i'm not convinced it really is. Might even be doing more for the bumper than anything else.

Saga Lout · 13th August 2015, 19:29

It's part of the structure, it's made to absorb initial impact, then the crumple zones take out a bit more etc...Without it you risk serious injury in a smash, the bulkhead can come in and pin you down, maybe even while your car is burning...and you get to be a dead star on youtube as people film it, then the insurance won't pay out and your family lose out.

Mike Noc · 13th August 2015, 19:32

Looks like it is more part of a crumple zone - you don't want the car stopping dead in a heavy shunt as the occupants will still be moving at speed and the forces where the seatbelt straps hold them will be too high, resulting in injury.

PS Saga has beaten me to it.

SD1too · 13th August 2015, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeraintUK

it's alloy don't forget. It's not that strong a material even in box section form.

Try telling an aeronautical engineer that!

Barnes Wallis will be turning in his grave.

Simon

DMGRS · 13th August 2015, 20:02

Whenever I've seen a 75 or ZT that's front-end damaged, this bar seems to have stood up to it quite well.
It's pretty thick gauge metal - I reckon it's got a lot of strength.

trikey · 13th August 2015, 20:04

I have repaired a few front end bumps, without the bar, they would have been much worse, also you would have nowhere to screw your tow eye in!

T-Cut · 13th August 2015, 20:21

I think (?) the question is whether the armature provides essential stiffening for the body shell as a whole. Cleary it's primary role is to protect the radiators/fan/engine, but if you're prepared to forego that assurance, will omitting it render the car structurally weaker? My gut feel is it isn't that essential structurally. To gain more space, you might replace it with a steel pipe an inch in diameter and get the same (rigidity) effect. But I'm not an engineer.

TC

13th August 2015, 17:27	#1
GeraintUK Passed Away MG ZT-T 160 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chester Posts: 1,307 Thanks: 64 Thanked 222 Times in 145 Posts	How "structural" is the front bumper bar ? The Armature (as it's official name) that goes between both legs on the front of our cars behind the bumper. http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-DPE100670 I'm trying to find out how structural it is for our cars. On build looking at anyway I can get a bigger intercooler in, and put simply, this bar is the blocker to all attempts. I was told of a trick where you put too little cuts in the bar and cover with masking tape and if the tape rips then it's structural and if it doesn't then it's not, but as the car isn't running yet, that's a hard theory to work out. Any thoughts? I know we are surprised just how rigid our cars are but not sure if an alloy bar with 8 bolts is contributing that much or not. TIA Geraint

13th August 2015, 19:29	#5
Saga Lout This is my second home MG ZT and Rover 75, Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Wigan Posts: 3,276 Thanks: 2,556 Thanked 2,685 Times in 1,037 Posts	Don't It's part of the structure, it's made to absorb initial impact, then the crumple zones take out a bit more etc...Without it you risk serious injury in a smash, the bulkhead can come in and pin you down, maybe even while your car is burning...and you get to be a dead star on youtube as people film it, then the insurance won't pay out and your family lose out.

13th August 2015, 20:02	#8
DMGRS Discount MG Rover Spares Rover 75 CDTi, 2x MG ZS180 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Hythe, Southampton Posts: 11,371 Thanks: 456 Thanked 3,377 Times in 2,027 Posts	Whenever I've seen a 75 or ZT that's front-end damaged, this bar seems to have stood up to it quite well. It's pretty thick gauge metal - I reckon it's got a lot of strength. __________________ Your trusted MG Rover specialist! Tel: 02380 001133 / Email: [email protected] We now have a 'chat' function on our site for even quicker replies. Give it a try! Remember - discount code FORUM5 for 5% off

13th August 2015, 20:04	#9
trikey Premium Trader Rover 75 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 33,832 Thanks: 8,837 Thanked 14,831 Times in 8,030 Posts	I have repaired a few front end bumps, without the bar, they would have been much worse, also you would have nowhere to screw your tow eye in! __________________ Lest we forget..

13th August 2015, 20:21	#10
T-Cut This is my second home Rover75 and Mreg Corsa. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sumweer onat mote o'dust (Sagin) Posts: 21,754 Thanks: 341 Thanked 3,660 Times in 2,924 Posts	I think (?) the question is whether the armature provides essential stiffening for the body shell as a whole. Cleary it's primary role is to protect the radiators/fan/engine, but if you're prepared to forego that assurance, will omitting it render the car structurally weaker? My gut feel is it isn't that essential structurally. To gain more space, you might replace it with a steel pipe an inch in diameter and get the same (rigidity) effect. But I'm not an engineer. TC Last edited by T-Cut; 13th August 2015 at 20:24..

13th August 2015, 17:32	#2
Les4048 This is my second home Rover 75 Tourer/ MG ZT-T 400 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Lhanbryde Posts: 3,279 Thanks: 2,627 Thanked 1,523 Times in 869 Posts	I'd say it's needed. It's a box not a bar therefore stronger and as it fits between front chassis legs I'd say it was pretty important

13th August 2015, 18:38	#3
KWIL Precise Rover 75 Tourer 2.5KV6 Connoisseur SE Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Fleet Posts: 2,978 Thanks: 630 Thanked 617 Times in 480 Posts	Well if it is not there, a small thump dead centre will almost certainly end up IN the engine bay

13th August 2015, 18:54	#4
GeraintUK Passed Away MG ZT-T 160 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chester Posts: 1,307 Thanks: 64 Thanked 222 Times in 145 Posts	it's alloy don't forget. It's not that strong a material even in box section form. I know on the face of it it's easy to think it's structural, but i'm not convinced it really is. Might even be doing more for the bumper than anything else.

13th August 2015, 19:32	#6
Mike Noc This is my second home Rover 75 CDT Manual Connoisseur SE, Rover 75 CDT Automatic Connoisseur SE & a Freelander Td4. Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,589 Thanks: 3,470 Thanked 3,119 Times in 2,247 Posts	Looks like it is more part of a crumple zone - you don't want the car stopping dead in a heavy shunt as the occupants will still be moving at speed and the forces where the seatbelt straps hold them will be too high, resulting in injury. PS Saga has beaten me to it.