Aldi battery charger.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by COLVERT

The Rovers electronic system goes slowly into sleep mode and, lets say, after half an hour is using the minimum current possible to be ready for when the system needs to be activated again.

Pressing the key button, opening a door or any other electrical use will make the electronics click into action.

A pulsing charger like these smart chargers will keep, in effect, prodding the system awake with the fluctuation voltages needed to trickle charge the battery.

The intelligent chargers do not continuously pulse charge the battery (not the quality ones ). They monitor and only go into the pulse charge phase when the battery voltage has dropped below a threshold. Given the relatively low drain on the battery, this is quite infrequently. Also, when charging, the battery acts as a regulator thus limiting sudden variations in voltage.

The effect that you describe simply does not occur. This is why a good quality 0.8A intelligent charger is more than sufficient to maintain a battery, despite the fact that when the electronics are woken up the current drain on the battery can be around 2A.

Remember that the incremental voltage drop between successive pulses and therefore the incremental voltage rise due to successive pulses is relatively very small.

Why do I get the feeling that some of the people on this thread are making things up as they go along without any basis in fact?

I am now going to call it a day, and bow out of this thread with a final set of words.

You cannot beat a high-quality product from a manufacturer with a heritage in the design of the said product. Becasue you only iron out unforeseen side effects through operational experience and successive design increments. If that is considered snobbery, I am happy to be a snob.

[Avulon]

Originally Posted by mss

Hence my repeated focus on how a charger handles failure modes, including externally induced voltage transients and the quality of the protection components in the charger!





Really?

How about field winding on the starter motor, the coils in every other motor, all the relays and solenoids, and of course the multiple meters of wiring!

Then there are all the stabilising capacitors in the electronic modules.

Why do you believe that on this very forum a number of the gurus have said that they've had to deal with corrupt EEPROM data follwoing battery replacements? Please explain!

Also, please explain the spark on connection mentioned by member tourer above.

Don't forget that induced EMF = -N dPhi/dt = -LdI/dt which means that the amplitude of the induced transient (voltage spike) is proportional to the rate of change of current, not the size of the current. It takes very little energy from an induced transient to damage a CMOS circuit.

Crikey! : but in response -
EMF = -N dPhi/dt ......... Now we're applying formulae for spinning magnetic fields???

Originally Posted by COLVERT

I would guess it's the FREQUENCY of the changes in voltage. The chargers voltages would be hopping about all over the place.---

Lots of the car's electronic components would never get the chance to go into SLEEP mode.

Originally Posted by COLVERT

The Rovers electronic system goes slowly into sleep mode and, lets say, after half an hour is using the minimum current possible to be ready for when the system needs to be activated again.

Pressing the key button, opening a door or any other electrical use will make the electronics click into action.

A pulsing charger like these smart chargers will keep, in effect, prodding the system awake with the fluctuation voltages needed to trickle charge the battery.

For once I'm in agreement with Colvert (for the thoughts quoted).

In fact a Halford's charger I've got (and yes this is rubbish despite the price tag) will charge up to a heady 12A on a Car battery.... Until it detects itself overheating (despite having a fan that sounds like a hovercraft) at which point it will switch to 2A or less - until it cools down and then back to 12A. That requires quite a jump in voltage to drive a 12A current into a battery. No way would I let that ever be connected to any battery while connected to a vehicle. But it has it's place for rapid charging in an emergency - only because of the overheat situation it's not that rapid..... so I don't know why I mention it really....

[marinabrian]

Originally Posted by Avulon

Crikey! : but in response -
EMF = -N dPhi/dt ......... Now we're applying formulae for spinning magnetic fields???







For once I'm in agreement with Colvert (for the thoughts quoted).

In fact a Halford's charger I've got (and yes this is rubbish despite the price tag) will charge up to a heady 12A on a Car battery.... Until it detects itself overheating (despite having a fan that sounds like a hovercraft) at which point it will switch to 2A or less - until it cools down and then back to 12A. That requires quite a jump in voltage to drive a 12A current into a battery. No way would I let that ever be connected to any battery while connected to a vehicle. But it has it's place for rapid charging in an emergency - only because of the overheat situation it's not that rapid..... so I don't know why I mention it really....

Lenz's Law?????

Anyway, the BCU will not "wake" from it's sleep mode with ripple introduced by a smartcharger, in "pulse" mode........something that seems to be forgotten here is the pulse mode is initiated for batteries showing circa 9.6v across the terminals, and the pulse mode ends once a surface charge >11v is attained.

In reality this will take a few minutes to achieve, and the likelihood of the smoothing capacity of the battery being unable to remove unwanted transient voltages from damaging any electronics, is so minuscule as to be irrelevant.

We are not talking about a selenium rectifier charger, where leaving it permanently connected would eventually lead to the battery being boiled dry, but rather more subtle.

Brian

[MSS]

Originally Posted by Avulon

Crikey! : but in response -
EMF = -N dPhi/dt ......... Now we're applying formulae for spinning magnetic fields???
..............

No - the formula has nothing at all to do with spinning magnetic fields!



The formula demonstrates that it is the rate of change of the magnetic flux, and therefore the rate of change of current, in an inductive element, that is responsible for generating the reactive transient EMF.

Originally Posted by marinabrian

Lenz's Law?????

Anyway, the BCU will not "wake" from it's sleep mode with ripple introduced by a smartcharger, in "pulse" mode........something that seems to be forgotten here is the pulse mode is initiated for batteries showing circa 9.6v across the terminals, and the pulse mode ends once a surface charge >11v is attained.

In reality this will take a few minutes to achieve, and the likelihood of the smoothing capacity of the battery being unable to remove unwanted transient voltages from damaging any electronics, is so minuscule as to be irrelevant.

We are not talking about a selenium rectifier charger, where leaving it permanently connected would eventually lead to the battery being boiled dry, but rather more subtle.

Brian

Thank you Brian. Our messages match almost word per word.


Brian - the quality that I have always admired in you is your desire for quality. Come on, get a quality charger man.

[bazyerma]

Maybe the reason Aldi / Lidl can sell such cheap chargers that work for 99% of jobs is because 12v car battery have not changed much and the majority of R&D has been done long ago?

C-tech is kinda the Apple of car charges, they are lovely, but something less than half the price can do the same job!

Also the C-tech charger below does not appear to come with an inline fuse?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00FC42H...601&th=1&psc=1

Regards

Barry

[Avulon]

Originally Posted by marinabrian

Lenz's Law?????

....

Just a....




wind up ....


lol.


Of course everyone knows that the quoted formula refers to a 'moving' magnetic field, whether that's due to change in electron flow (the field collapsing or expanding) or physical movement doesn't matter. And quoting the formula is just so much alphabet soup to try and convince the reader of the assertion of causing voltage spikes by disconnecting the battery.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by Avulon

Just a....


..............



Of course everyone knows that the quoted formula refers to a 'moving' magnetic field, whether that's due to change in electron flow (the field collapsing or expanding) or physical movement doesn't matter. And quoting the formula is just so much alphabet soup to try and convince the reader of the assertion of causing voltage spikes by disconnecting the battery.

Why is it that people who fail to understand say "you are confusing me"?

[Avulon]

Originally Posted by mss

Why is it that people who fail to understand say "you are confusing me"?

Probably because you are...?



or would be if I didn't know what heck you were talking about (i.e. like the majority of the wider public who don't have education/training in EMF and electronics...)




Perhaps you meant 'why is it that people don't agree with me? It's not like I haven't given them the formula to work it out themselves' perhaps you'd like to calculate the formula for a rover 75 (you'll have to make valid estimates of inductance for the various components and what is and what is not connected/active at the time of the 'event') and predict the voltage spike values that will/might/may occur during disconnection/reconnection of the battery? Sounds like a fascinating exercise - which I don't have time to do myself. I look forward to the results.

[Dallas]

Originally Posted by mss

Brian - the quality that I have always admired in you is your desire for quality. Come on, get a quality charger man.

Maninder, what makes for a good quality car charger?

Once upon a time the divide between a good quality product and a poor quality product was obvious, lower levels of manufacturing and less materials to choose from was evident. We didn't have the technology that we have today, we didn't have the modern manufacturing methods that are used now.

Generally speaking a high price indicates either good quality or bad value, whereas a low price indicates either poor quality or good value, so which is it?

Consumers are easily fooled into the clever marketing strategies that retailers use, prices are often artificially inflated to promote the brand as being good quality. In many case's the product could have only cost pennies to make, but is marketed by a certain brand company to achieve higher profit margins.

Luxury buying and buying expensive products is a form of therapy, it gives the consumer a sense of wellbeing, manufactures and retailers know this. I am not saying there are no longer poor quality products, what I am saying is, times have changed, there are far more good quality products being sold at more realistic prices than ever before.

How many members here shop at the budget Lidl and Adli store's for their weekly food shop, but then turn around and say they wouldn't buy a low cost product in fear of poor quality.

The manufacturing industry has changed, there are far more rules and regulations which help promote better quality products, product quality has never been so good.

[MSS]

Originally Posted by Dallas

Maninder, what makes for a good quality car charger?

................

Do you have to ask Wes, it is the one that I choose. Obviously!

Originally Posted by Dallas

The manufacturing industry has changed, there are far more rules and regulations which help promote better quality products, product quality has never been so good.

Only in Europe and NA. The only rules in many other parts of the world are to make as much money as possible. This includes the willingness to forge compliance stickers and apply them to dangerous goods.