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Old 19th February 2019, 08:05   #51
Ross R75
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And guess how many of the cheap chargers do not have one! Also, if it does, can you trust it to act like a fuse?

Similarly, the cheap £2.89 DVM's. They are OK for simple tasks, but they are no Fluke 77!

Ditto cheap PC power supplies which are the closest item to a modern charger in terms of functionality. Many of them are dangerous!
Good job each and every one of our cars came with a couple of boxes of the things then. Quite trustworthy too from what I hear
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Old 19th February 2019, 08:09   #52
MSS
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Good job each and every one of our cars came with a couple of boxes of the things then. Quite trustworthy too from what I hear

They are bulk current devices which do very little to nothing to dampen transients which I would consider to be the main threat to a car's semiconductor components.

ps as I said earlier, if a person considers the alternative views and makes a decision to buy a cheap charger, great. But, it is worth considering whether the additional cost of a well designed charger from a company that has a heritage in designing such leading edge devices and one that exudes quality is really that significant.


ps2 as I said earlier, I have no concerns about using my cheap charger on the 20 year-old ride-on mower which has no electronics other than the internal regulator.

Last edited by MSS; 19th February 2019 at 08:17..
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Old 19th February 2019, 08:49   #53
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My concern with the cheap items - which are cheap for a reason which is that they use cheap components and have not invested in RD&D - is the integrity of car's electronics in the case of failures rather than the battery. I consider batteries to be consumable/scarificial items and never hesitate to change a battery.

As I said earlier, compare the lifespan of Infenion MOSFETS and other semiconductor components with their copies or equivalents from certain parts of the world, then the price differences, and you will soon know a) why the some chargers can be purchased for circa £15 and b) why others cost circa £60.

The LIDL and ALDI chargers are very good value, in that they are equivalent to £20 chargers but are sold for £13. If you are happy with such a device, great.

But, always ask yourself, with a modern car's electronics worth £5k to £20k, is the difference between £13 and £60 material?

As it happens, I bought my third CTEK 2 weeks ago - a MSX 5.0. So now I have 3* CTEK, 1* Optimate and 1* LIDL plus a traditional non-auto 4A/8A Halfords device. The CTEK is worth every penny when you look at it's design, construction and quality of materials.
I knew there must be a good reason why you couldn't afford to renew your subs this year Maninder

I have a Lidl "ultimate speed" smart charger, and it's perfectly fine with any of my cars, which are all fitted with either Bosch or Varta "normal" lead acid batteries.

When I bought it, the first thing I did was to open it up to look inside, the pick and place was excellent, the PCB was of decent quality, as was the flow soldering, the quality of the components was in no way inferior to the Jaguar branded "Optimate" opened up for comparison.

It is disingenuous to compare these with cheap Chinese ATX switch mode PSU, it is simply not a valid comparison.

There is a reason these units are cheap, mainly as the middle aisle is considered a "loss leader" to entice shoppers in to the store.

My background is electronics based, so I feel suitably qualified to comment, without feeling the need for snobbery

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Old 19th February 2019, 09:14   #54
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I knew there must be a good reason why you couldn't afford to renew your subs this year Maninder

I have a Lidl "ultimate speed" smart charger, and it's perfectly fine with any of my cars, which are all fitted with either Bosch or Varta "normal" lead acid batteries.

When I bought it, the first thing I did was to open it up to look inside, the pick and place was excellent, the PCB was of decent quality, as was the flow soldering, the quality of the components was in no way inferior to the Jaguar branded "Optimate" opened up for comparison.

It is disingenuous to compare these with cheap Chinese ATX switch mode PSU, it is simply not a valid comparison.

There is a reason these units are cheap, mainly as the middle aisle is considered a "loss leader" to entice shoppers in to the store.

My background is electronics based, so I feel suitably qualified to comment, without feeling the need for snobbery

Brian

Come on Brian, I remember how you displayed a picture of your Keithly with great pride - very high quality item indeed.

The reason you give for the units being cheap is correct only insofar that they are sold for £20 to £25 in many other places and £13 in the supermarkets in question. I already stated this above.

What were the manufacturers of the key semiconductor components in your charger?

The basic problem these days is that people delude themselves that they can buy quality on the cheap and as a result the market is flooded with rubbish

of all sorts.


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I knew there must be a good reason why you couldn't afford to renew your subs this year Maninder

............

Brian
No - it's because car repairs are so expensive these day. But I'm told you do these things for your friends. Here's waiting with a long list.

ps, my latest CTEK is so nice, I could sit here fondling it all day. In fact, I feel that I am getting my money's worth before even charging a single battery with it!

As for snobbery, I still use my son's old Smasung S3 mini mobile phone. None of these gold plated fancy iPhone thingies that cost more than two Rover 75's here!

Last edited by MSS; 19th February 2019 at 10:32..
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Old 19th February 2019, 12:00   #55
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A wise move as a precaution, until the supply network is moved away from Jonny Foreigner to British ownership.

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Old 19th February 2019, 12:07   #56
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More on topic...
What do the car's electronics have to do with the battery charger? Maybe the CTek or optimate will say they are safe to connect while the battery is connected on the car? Very few chargers will. Unfortunately I don't know if the cheap and practical charger say it's ok, or, if they say the battery must be disconnected from the vehicle (lost the leaflet). On the Bike it's fine - the only component at risk without the ign on is the regulator and I take the risk - the replacement is available and isn't that expensive (no more than the cost of a battery). On the car I wouldn't connect any charger with the +ve lead connected to the car electronics, period. There's far too many modules that should be in sleep mode with the ign off that might not take kindly to the sort of voltage changes and cycling of a modern battery charger.
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Old 19th February 2019, 12:13   #57
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A wise move as a precaution, until the supply network is moved away from Jonny Foreigner to British ownership.


Most likely, form "Johny Foreigner" to 外国人 (Laowai) ownership.

Let's not turn this into a political thread - especially as I would be "Johny Foreigner" in some peoples' eyes!
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Old 19th February 2019, 12:20   #58
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More on topic...
What do the car's electronics have to do with the battery charger? Maybe the CTek or optimate will say they are safe to connect while the battery is connected on the car? Very few chargers will. Unfortunately I don't know if the cheap and practical charger say it's ok, or, if they say the battery must be disconnected from the vehicle (lost the leaflet). On the Bike it's fine - the only component at risk without the ign on is the regulator and I take the risk - the replacement is available and isn't that expensive (no more than the cost of a battery). On the car I wouldn't connect any charger with the +ve lead connected to the car electronics, period. There's far too many modules that should be in sleep mode with the ign off that might not take kindly to the sort of voltage changes and cycling of a modern battery charger.

I do just that, as do many other people. I do so with 100% confidence, due to the quality of the design and the quality of the protection components in my CTEK and Optimate. Given the number of vehicles that I own, more time is spent by each vehicle in this mode than any other because I just leave the maintenance chargers connected permanently most of the time.

In fact, mrs MSS' Twintop toy has been permanently connected to a CTEK since October awaiting cabriolet weather.
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Old 19th February 2019, 12:22   #59
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Most likely, form "Johny Foreigner" to 外国人 (Laowai) ownership.

Let's not turn this into a political thread - especially as I would be "Johny Foreigner" in some peoples' eyes!

Yes, I agree.

I took your post as a light hearted joke, rather than political.
Perhaps, you can do the same with mine?
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Old 19th February 2019, 12:27   #60
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Good brand Maypole, famous in the caravan and towing world. But then again the body design seems to be generic, same mouldings as many other names being sold. Not many carry the inline fuse though, nice little touch.
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