ZT 190 camshaft position - the correct setting.

slav · 11th September 2015, 12:54

Hello,

I know the cam belt tools need to have a special adapter plate to set the 190 camshaft correctly.

The adapter plate for ZT 190 engine looks like this:

From what I can see, the silver pins on it are not symmetrical, so it would seem to me they would rotate the cam slightly when compared to the standard 2,5 tool plate.
Am I correct?

As far as I know, on standard 2.5 KV6, when the crank is in the safe position and the markings on the rear belt cog wheels align - then the timing is spot on just like on the photos below.
Am I correct?

If the 190 tool indeed rotates the cam slightly as compared to other 2.5 V6, then I gues the rear cog wheel moves with it and therefore the marks would be misaligned a bit - but only for the 190 version.
Is that true?

Last time my belts were done without the special tools and I have a feeling that my mechanic didn't know there are any differences when timing the 190.
So is there any way for the 190 owners without the tools, to check if their timing is set correctly for their engine version?

Phil-T4 · 11th September 2015, 14:24

You need to lock the crankshaft into the timing position using the correct tool through the hole in the flywheel. Then check your rear belts again.

The rear belt marks should be perfectly in line.

jonc3725 · 11th September 2015, 14:53

Good question I was going to ask the same thing. The previous owner of my red ZT said he was down on power (although he consequently bought a brand new inlet manifold and vis motors

) so I was wondering if the car had been timed to a normal V6 setting. I will watch this post with interest as I dont fancy paying out for a cam set if I dont need to

jonc3725 · 12th September 2015, 10:30

Are there any V6 gurus out there that can answer our query?

Phil-T4 · 12th September 2015, 10:33

Which query? - If the cam timing is correct the rear belt pulley marks will line up when the timing pin is fitted as i said on post #2

jonc3725 · 12th September 2015, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil-T4

Which query? - If the cam timing is correct the rear belt pulley marks will line up when the timing pin is fitted as i said on post #2

Ok mate cheers. Perhaps I was thinking more in depth than I needed

So if the rear belt pulley timing marks align the car has been timed to a 190 if not I can reset it back to the mark when I change my belts. I dont normally use the specialist timing tools on any other car I have changed the belts on but if needed for the 190 I was going to. Sounds good.

Cheers

Phil-T4 · 12th September 2015, 11:26

Yes that is it! remove BOTH rear belt covers, lock the flywheel and the timing marks will be in line with the centre of the bolts if correct, this applies to all variants of the KV6.

BTW the picture shown in the first post looks out of alignment to me.

Stag>75 · 12th September 2015, 11:41

I think there may be some confusion about how things work.

You certainly need to place the engine in the "SAFE" position and lock the flywheel etc - And from memory it is possible to have it out by 180 degrees. But once you have done that then it is a matter of doing the rear and front belts separately and differently.

The rear sprockets are "keyed" to the camshaft ends. ie: They can only bolt on one way. But then then belt has to be placed so that the inlet and exhaust sprockets align a particular way. The REAR alignment special tool ensure that alignment is correct. The sprockets are unbolted and rebolted as part of the belt removal/refit process noting that you cannot hold the other end of the camshaft when doing this unless you want to crack the camshaft.

The front sprocket arrangement is different. The front sprockets are NOT "keyed" to the camshafts like the rear ones are, the point of this being that setting the front sprocket with the tool does not turn the rear one becuase the idea is that the sprockets are unbolted and THEN the FRONT alignment special tool (2 litre vs 2.5 standard vs 190/180) is used to align each sprocket using the exhaust camshaft as the reference point - part of the tool inserts into the front of the ecxhaust camshaft. If you want to guarantee alignment there is no other way than to use the special tool, here is no reference point that can be relied upon. Once aligned using the tool then you tighten the bolt that retains the sprocket.

Many people get by without using the special tool on the front assuming that the existing setting can be relied upon, that MAY be valid or MAY not be. Lots of postings debating this.

Phil-T4 · 12th September 2015, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stag>75

I think there may be some confusion about how things work.

You certainly need to place the engine in the "SAFE" position and lock the flywheel etc - And from memory it is possible to have it out by 180 degrees. But once you have done that then it is a matter of doing the rear and front belts separately and differently.

The rear sprockets are "keyed" to the camshaft ends. ie: They can only bolt on one way. But then then belt has to be placed so that the inlet and exhaust sprockets align a particular way. The REAR alignment special tool ensure that alignment is correct. The sprockets are unbolted and rebolted as part of the belt removal/refit process noting that you cannot hold the other end of the camshaft when doing this unless you want to crack the camshaft.

The front sprocket arrangement is different. The front sprockets are NOT "keyed" to the camshafts like the rear ones are, the point of this being that setting the front sprocket with the tool does not turn the rear one becuase the idea is that the sprockets are unbolted and THEN the FRONT alignment special tool (2 litre vs 2.5 standard vs 190/180) is used to align each sprocket using the exhaust camshaft as the reference point - part of the tool inserts into the front of the ecxhaust camshaft. If you want to guarantee alignment there is no other way than to use the special tool, here is no reference point that can be relied upon. Once aligned using the tool then you tighten the bolt that retains the sprocket.

Many people get by without using the special tool on the front assuming that the existing setting can be relied upon, that MAY be valid or MAY not be. Lots of postings debating this.

Sorry but the front inlet cam pulley is keyed to the camshaft!

chris75 · 12th September 2015, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil-T4

Sorry but the front inlet cam pulley is keyed to the camshaft!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stag>75

I think there may be some confusion about how things work.

The front sprocket arrangement is different. The front sprockets are NOT "keyed" to the camshafts like the rear ones are, the point of this being that setting the front sprocket with the tool does not turn the rear one becuase the idea is that the sprockets are unbolted and THEN the FRONT alignment special tool (2 litre vs 2.5 standard vs 190/180) is used to align each sprocket using the exhaust camshaft as the reference point - part of the tool inserts into the front of the ecxhaust camshaft.
Many people get by without using the special tool on the front assuming that the existing setting can be relied upon, that MAY be valid or MAY not be. Lots of postings debating this.

You are both right in a sense ! The inlet sprockets at the front of the engine have a loose hub in the centre which permits 15 deg of rotation of the sprocket relative to the camshaft . The hub is keyed to the shaft , but the sprocket can still rotate some 15 deg when the bolt is loosened , so it is not effectively keyed .It is this clever feature which allows perfect fitting and tensioning of the belt without having to compromise the timing at all

I was fascinated by it when I did my belts

11th September 2015, 12:54	#1
slav Newbie MG ZT 190 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Wroclaw Posts: 21 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	ZT 190 camshaft position - the correct setting. Hello, I know the cam belt tools need to have a special adapter plate to set the 190 camshaft correctly. The adapter plate for ZT 190 engine looks like this: From what I can see, the silver pins on it are not symmetrical, so it would seem to me they would rotate the cam slightly when compared to the standard 2,5 tool plate. Am I correct? As far as I know, on standard 2.5 KV6, when the crank is in the safe position and the markings on the rear belt cog wheels align - then the timing is spot on just like on the photos below. Am I correct? If the 190 tool indeed rotates the cam slightly as compared to other 2.5 V6, then I gues the rear cog wheel moves with it and therefore the marks would be misaligned a bit - but only for the 190 version. Is that true? Last time my belts were done without the special tools and I have a feeling that my mechanic didn't know there are any differences when timing the 190. So is there any way for the 190 owners without the tools, to check if their timing is set correctly for their engine version? __________________ Mods so far: boot spoiler, long mg boot plinth, K&N cone air filter, cold air intake, metal thermostat, pneumatic t-piece for breather pipes, mist windsheld washer nozzles, Alu oil filler cap, carbon badges, sealed bonnet switch, flipped bonnet cable connector, Powerflex all over [lower engine mount, front anti roll bar, front arm rear bush]. Mods on the waiting list: powerfold mirrors, Arduino car computer, puddle lights, VIS indicator, coolant level sensor.

11th September 2015, 14:53	#3
jonc3725 Posted a thing or two MG ZT 190 + and MKIV Supra Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Plymouth Posts: 1,551 Thanks: 224 Thanked 493 Times in 359 Posts	Good question I was going to ask the same thing. The previous owner of my red ZT said he was down on power (although he consequently bought a brand new inlet manifold and vis motors) so I was wondering if the car had been timed to a normal V6 setting. I will watch this post with interest as I dont fancy paying out for a cam set if I dont need to __________________ Jon C Living the dream MK IV VVTI Tiptronic TT Toyota Supra MG ZT 190+ BornTuesday, 10th July 2001 @ 09:01:10 259th ZT to run off the production line, out of 18,894 252nd ZT 190 + to be made out of 4,023 101st ZT in Solar Red (code: CEU) to be made out of 1,888

12th September 2015, 10:30	#4
jonc3725 Posted a thing or two MG ZT 190 + and MKIV Supra Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Plymouth Posts: 1,551 Thanks: 224 Thanked 493 Times in 359 Posts	Are there any V6 gurus out there that can answer our query? __________________ Jon C Living the dream MK IV VVTI Tiptronic TT Toyota Supra MG ZT 190+ BornTuesday, 10th July 2001 @ 09:01:10 259th ZT to run off the production line, out of 18,894 252nd ZT 190 + to be made out of 4,023 101st ZT in Solar Red (code: CEU) to be made out of 1,888

12th September 2015, 11:41	#8
Stag>75 Gets stuck in Rover 75 Saloon 2.5 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Melbourne Posts: 563 Thanks: 52 Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts	I think there may be some confusion about how things work. You certainly need to place the engine in the "SAFE" position and lock the flywheel etc - And from memory it is possible to have it out by 180 degrees. But once you have done that then it is a matter of doing the rear and front belts separately and differently. The rear sprockets are "keyed" to the camshaft ends. ie: They can only bolt on one way. But then then belt has to be placed so that the inlet and exhaust sprockets align a particular way. The REAR alignment special tool ensure that alignment is correct. The sprockets are unbolted and rebolted as part of the belt removal/refit process noting that you cannot hold the other end of the camshaft when doing this unless you want to crack the camshaft. The front sprocket arrangement is different. The front sprockets are NOT "keyed" to the camshafts like the rear ones are, the point of this being that setting the front sprocket with the tool does not turn the rear one becuase the idea is that the sprockets are unbolted and THEN the FRONT alignment special tool (2 litre vs 2.5 standard vs 190/180) is used to align each sprocket using the exhaust camshaft as the reference point - part of the tool inserts into the front of the ecxhaust camshaft. If you want to guarantee alignment there is no other way than to use the special tool, here is no reference point that can be relied upon. Once aligned using the tool then you tighten the bolt that retains the sprocket. Many people get by without using the special tool on the front assuming that the existing setting can be relied upon, that MAY be valid or MAY not be. Lots of postings debating this. Last edited by Stag>75; 12th September 2015 at 11:49..

11th September 2015, 14:24	#2
Phil-T4 I really should get out more....... MG ZT-T, Rover 75 Tourer Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Olney Posts: 2,969 Thanks: 245 Thanked 1,088 Times in 657 Posts	You need to lock the crankshaft into the timing position using the correct tool through the hole in the flywheel. Then check your rear belts again. The rear belt marks should be perfectly in line.

12th September 2015, 10:33	#5
Phil-T4 I really should get out more....... MG ZT-T, Rover 75 Tourer Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Olney Posts: 2,969 Thanks: 245 Thanked 1,088 Times in 657 Posts	Which query? - If the cam timing is correct the rear belt pulley marks will line up when the timing pin is fitted as i said on post #2

12th September 2015, 11:26	#7
Phil-T4 I really should get out more....... MG ZT-T, Rover 75 Tourer Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Olney Posts: 2,969 Thanks: 245 Thanked 1,088 Times in 657 Posts	Yes that is it! remove BOTH rear belt covers, lock the flywheel and the timing marks will be in line with the centre of the bolts if correct, this applies to all variants of the KV6. BTW the picture shown in the first post looks out of alignment to me.