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Old 19th November 2019, 22:23   #31
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Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb View Post
Just done this job on my CDT, but prompted by the obvious play in the bottom hub ball joint, so I was replacing the lower arm anyway, and while there was no audible knocking, the bush was cracking, and having read on here that it can be a pain with the arm in situ, decided to remove both together. Used a friend's 18mm angled ring spanner and a piece of old exhaust pipe from the Mitsubishi to loosen the rear bush bolt, and much penetrating fluid, heat and lump hammering on the ball joint splitter fork by said friend to get the ball joint out of the sub-frame. Struggled to get the bolts re-threaded with the new bush, due to the road-spring on full extension, so the bush is rotated. Finally managed it with a tyre lever under the lower arm and pressing down on the bracket to get the bolt and holes aligned, and the same kinked spanner pressing down on the bolt flange, turning half a flat at a time. Doubtless an easier job, once you have learned all the lessons from doing it once, but not my idea of a fun way to spend the weekend. All designed for ease of putting together before the subframe was fitted to the car in the factory. Not so easy on an old car without dropping the subframe, with all the additional disassembly that involves!
So if you are replacing the arm and bush as a "unit", to avoid difficulty in refitting the bush housing bolts, simply defer fitting the outboard ball joint into the swivel hub until the M14 bolts securing the bush housing are refitted.

This allows the arm to be articulated until the bush housing is parallel with the subframe without the use of any force, and more importantly avoids the possibility of cross threading the bolts into the subframe.

Once the bolts are fitted, then the outer balljoint can be fitted to the swivel hub.

The ordeal Andrew describes is completely and utterly avoidable

Brian
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Old 20th November 2019, 11:29   #32
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A handy tip Brian - hopefully i'll be able to employ this method soon





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Old 21st November 2019, 23:06   #33
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I did it that way as, when I changed the clutch, then reassembled the suspension, I found it very difficult to get the lower ball joint stub correctly aligned to fit into its hole in the bottom of the swivel hub, several times it got stuck at the necked part of the ball joint stub that takes the clamp bolt. Easier with subframe dropped to relax spring pressure, but that requires more disassembly. And I remember that getting the ball joint stub out of the swivel hub needed 1 person levering while the other pushed the top of the hub inwards so that ball joint stub and hole were on the same axis. I also think that when undoing the 2nd (front) bush bracket bolt, the final thread in the subframe may have been damaged by the twisting effect of spring pressure, so making it easier to cross-thread the bolt when replacing. You live and learn, and if I can remember all the knacks and tricks I learned doing this one, it will be a lot easier next time. I'm also struggling with a painful and weak shoulder, caused by a trapped nerve in my neck. But all help and suggestions from more experienced hands is gratefully received. And I would also have probably just given up, and handed it all to the garage, without the kind help of Mike Beveridge (Mbev) on here, whose knowledge, physical assistance and spanner, helped me get the whole thing apart!
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Old 22nd November 2019, 08:34   #34
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I use a G clamp to lightly hold the bush flat against the subframe, and then tap it into position over the front hole to align the thread checking it with the aid of a small mirror.

Once the front bolt is in and nipped I remove the G clamp and tap the bush into position for the second bolt.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 18:55   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb View Post
Just done this job on my CDT, but prompted by the obvious play in the bottom hub ball joint, so I was replacing the lower arm anyway, and while there was no audible knocking, the bush was cracking, and having read on here that it can be a pain with the arm in situ, decided to remove both together. Used a friend's 18mm angled ring spanner and a piece of old exhaust pipe from the Mitsubishi to loosen the rear bush bolt, and much penetrating fluid, heat and lump hammering on the ball joint splitter fork by said friend to get the ball joint out of the sub-frame. Struggled to get the bolts re-threaded with the new bush, due to the road-spring on full extension, so the bush is rotated. Finally managed it with a tyre lever under the lower arm and pressing down on the bracket to get the bolt and holes aligned, and the same kinked spanner pressing down on the bolt flange, turning half a flat at a time. Doubtless an easier job, once you have learned all the lessons from doing it once, but not my idea of a fun way to spend the weekend. All designed for ease of putting together before the subframe was fitted to the car in the factory. Not so easy on an old car without dropping the subframe, with all the additional disassembly that involves!
Road spring on full extension you say.

How about spring clamps to take off the load ???
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Old 22nd November 2019, 19:42   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comfortably Numb View Post
I did it that way as, when I changed the clutch, then reassembled the suspension, I found it very difficult to get the lower ball joint stub correctly aligned to fit into its hole in the bottom of the swivel hub, several times it got stuck at the necked part of the ball joint stub that takes the clamp bolt. Easier with subframe dropped to relax spring pressure, but that requires more disassembly. And I remember that getting the ball joint stub out of the swivel hub needed 1 person levering while the other pushed the top of the hub inwards so that ball joint stub and hole were on the same axis. I also think that when undoing the 2nd (front) bush bracket bolt, the final thread in the subframe may have been damaged by the twisting effect of spring pressure, so making it easier to cross-thread the bolt when replacing. You live and learn, and if I can remember all the knacks and tricks I learned doing this one, it will be a lot easier next time. I'm also struggling with a painful and weak shoulder, caused by a trapped nerve in my neck. But all help and suggestions from more experienced hands is gratefully received. And I would also have probably just given up, and handed it all to the garage, without the kind help of Mike Beveridge (Mbev) on here, whose knowledge, physical assistance and spanner, helped me get the whole thing apart!

A little shaking of the strut/hub and I have found for both assembly an disassembly the ball joint suddenly either went together or came apart. I had struggled for ages previously to the shake.

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Old 22nd November 2019, 20:02   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macafee2 View Post
A little shaking of the strut/hub and I have found for both assembly an disassembly the ball joint suddenly either went together or came apart. I had struggled for ages previously to the shake.

macafee2
Ian has hit the nail on the head

It is the angle that the ball pin enters the hub which determines the ease of which it passes into the hub.

The reduced diameter section of the ball pin, becomes bound on the bottom of the hole in the hub, if the angle is incorrect

Brian
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Old 22nd November 2019, 20:08   #38
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I put a lever in the cast hole in the bush, easy to lever the bush with one hand while inserting the bolt with the other.

My record is 1.5 hrs for both
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Old 22nd November 2019, 20:12   #39
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I put a lever in the cast hole in the bush, easy to lever the bush with one hand while inserting the bolt with the other.

My record is 1.5 hrs for both
Both bushes, or both pairs on both cars

Slowcoach
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Old 22nd November 2019, 21:40   #40
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I asked this on the other wishbone bush thread so I'll put it here too:

An intriguing facet of this (to me anyway), is why does Xpart/Rimmer list a different Part Number for the Rover 75 rear bush and the MG ZT version? It's always been my understanding that different Part Numbers mean different parts. Yet from what I see, most aftermarket sellers offer the same part for the 75 and the ZT. I assumed it may be to provide the different suspension specs (eg the front camber angles, which through some mechanism are different). But, the reasoning I was given on the forum, is that the rubber used for the bushes is different in its stiffness. A bit like the diesel's lower engine mount bush, which is stiffer than the others. Anyone have a view on this?

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