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Old 12th March 2014, 09:02   #41
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What bugs me over this was the fact that being a Scot living in England I'm denied a vote although I've noticed in the past few days that the legal basis of this has now been challenged that may delay the voting date. If you're an expat sunning yourself in Australia or the Costa del Crime and left the UK up to 15 years ago then you're allowed to vote in the UK general election and referendums. Personally I disagree with this - if you ain't contributing to the country then why should you be allowed to have a say on how it's run Anyroad imho this principle should be handed to expat Scots.

Re the SNP - this surely must be the watershed for them. If it's a "no" vote then do they start becoming an irrelevance in Scottish / UK politics?

Last edited by Gman2; 12th March 2014 at 09:15..
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Old 12th March 2014, 09:19   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman2 View Post
What bugs me over this was the fact that being a Scot living in England I'm denied a vote although I've noticed in the past few days that the legal basis of this has now been challenged that may delay the voting date. If you're an expat sunning yourself in Australia or the Costa del Crime and left the UK up to 15 years ago then you're allowed to vote in the UK general election and referendums. Personally I disagree with this - if you ain't contributing to the country then why should you be allowed to have a say on how it's run Anyroad imho this principle should be handed to expat Scots.

Re the SNP - this surely must be the watershed for them. If it's a "no" vote then do they start becoming an irrelevance in Scottish / UK politics?
Re your last question.
With the tories and labour as the competition the SNP will always be the power in Scotland.
The others had their chance and blew it .

The tories should just admit defeat and push off.
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Old 12th March 2014, 16:09   #43
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Strange, “how the Official Spokesman is viewed with suspicion and mistrust yet the unofficial and unidentified shouter is taken as a creditable and repeatable source“.

We have the Governor of the Bank of England (in reality the Bank of UK), who presumably has access to the finest legal and financial advice in the land, stating that an Independent Scotland would not be able to maintain the pound as a currency (and giving the reasoning behind that which nobody has yet been able to deny). He seems a measured and reasonable chap, not given to hyperbole, and for the life of me I can’t think what he would gain by lying.

Then there is the President of the EU stating that Scotland would find it very difficult to gain membership of EU, if not impossible. Also, that it would take years to accomplish anyway, given the queue that already exists. In the event of a successful bid, by no means guaranteed, Scotland would be required to join the Euro. Again, I struggle to find what Barroso has to gain by lying in saying such things on the world stage.

Then there is Salmond. As they say, make your own mind up.

Why is it that when two of the people above give a balanced opinion, based on expert advice, they are accused of “forcing it down our throats” by supporters of the move and the third is believed by them without question? Nothing has been forced on anyone and to suggest it has is mere troublemaking.

Is the truth such a bad thing that it must not be tolerated? Contrary to what seems to be a very small minority north of the border, most of the rest of the citizens of these united islands don’t see or think of a “them and us” situation. Just Us. With every constituent magnificent part just as important and valued as the rest.
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Old 12th March 2014, 16:16   #44
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I reckon that nicely sums up my view about the situation!
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Old 12th March 2014, 16:35   #45
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More bad news for ScOuters:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-26541575


We can't afford to go it alone IMHO - look at the public sector expenditure per person vs RUK?
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Old 12th March 2014, 16:40   #46
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Due to the thread containing a number of different questions raised in the other thread on the same topic I have copied my posts from there below:



In 2011, Scotland was positioned as the third highest region in the UK - behind London and the south east of England.
Adding a geographical share of Scotland's North Sea output increases Scottish GDP per head from 99% to about 118% of the UK average.
Scotland's share of the UK national debt is lower as a percentage of GDP than the UK's. UK public sector net debt at the end of 2011-12 stood at £1.1
trillion (72% of GDP). Scotland's per capita share would have been equivalent to £92bn (62% of GDP).
Scottish exports (excluding oil and gas) to destinations outside the UK in 2011 totalled £23.9bn. In the same year, a further £45.5bn of goods and services were traded with the rest of the UK.
Key strengths include the food and drink sector (18%), reflecting high demand overseas for Scottish whisky.
Scotland is estimated to have the largest reserves of oil in the EU, accounting for 60% of the EU total.
There are estimated to be up to 24 billion barrels of oil to be extracted from the North Sea.
Scotland has 25% of Europe's offshore wind and tidal resource and 10% of Europe's wave resource.
At this time, there are more wave and tidal power devices being tested in the waters off Scotland than in any other country in the world.
It already generates more than one-third of electricity needs from renewables, including hydro power.
Turnover in the food and drink reached £5.38bn in 2011.
Scotland is the world's third largest salmon producer.
Scotland lands 60% of the UK's fish and has more than one quarter of the UK's beef herd.
When it comes to whisky it is reported that 40 bottles of the spirit are shipped overseas each second.
Scotland is internationally recognised as the most important UK financial centre outside London and the south east.
The tourism industry employs almost 200,000 people in Scotland.
The creative industry sector has a turnover of £4.8bn. Scottish art, film, fashion, music and literature are well recognised, as are Scotland's design, IT and computer gaming industries.
Scotland has a strong digital and ICT sector, employing 47,000 people.
In 2012 the Life Sciences sector provided employment for about 32,500 people in 650 companies and organisations. The related area of medical technology and pharmaceutical services has also shown growth.

I am sure that with Scotland being a major stakeholder selling back its stake in the bank of England would suffice in financing a Scottish central bank.
Scotland, which has 8.3% of the UK population, pays 9.2% of total taxes.
Setting up its own currency would be a plus (imo), allowing Scotland total financial independence, setting interest rates etc. but this idea would require substantial foreign exchange reserves being bought and Scotlands creditors would be mad not to impose high interest rates on an unproven economy, this would lead to a degree of austerity.
Keeping the pound would mean no true independence as financial control would be restricted.
Of course, there would be a portion of the national debt to have to swallow, but how? there are two ways:
For Britain to simply transfer a portion (population share - based on the number of persons) to the tune of as much as £180 billion. this figure equates to a relatively high debt-to-GDP ratio by international standards (76%).
Should Britain transfer a historical share: split based on how much in the way of debt (or surpluses) Scotland and the rest of the UK generated in recent years. Because Scotland has generated a series of budget surpluses due to North Sea oil revenues, its share of the debt would considerably lower at approximately £100bn - 55% of Scottish GDP.
Either way Britain would be in trouble - they would effectively be defaulting on their debt, their creditors across the world, who had bought British gilts, would not be pleased to discover that they were now holding the debt of a small country with no track record in debt markets.
A quick edit:
I drifted off into the national debt a little there and I totally forgot to mention the 'up yours' stance that Scotland may take.
All the debt accrued up to the point of independence belongs to the Treasury, Scotland can’t default on debt that’s not legally owed.
So there you go, a national debt of £1.6 trillion and not a penny need be paid by Scotland, leaving the UK copping the lot - with a loss of almost 10% on income generated by Scottish taxes.
As I mentioned before a degree of early austerity would be needed should Scotland have their own currency (until it matures) but the rest of the UK would be forced into further austerity measures to recoup the reduction in taxes.
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Old 12th March 2014, 16:46   #47
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i think and hope that Scotland will stay in the UK
All these figures that get banded about(no one knows the true figures)
Will Scotland be worse off who knows
Will the rest of the UK again who knows
Another thing this isnt England vs Scotland or vise versa its the whole country.

As it stands England is the least powerful of all the countries in the union-Why you ask Scotland has its own parliament,Wales does and so does NI but The parliament in Westminster is not Englands just the whole UKs
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Old 12th March 2014, 16:59   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopCat999 View Post
More bad news for ScOuters:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-26541575


We can't afford to go it alone IMHO - look at the public sector expenditure per person vs RUK?

have yet to look into this report properly but like all reports (yes even mine above) there is huge amounts of information missing, such as the fact that Scotland would not have the huge foreign aid expenditure that the UK has (£150 per person - uk average)......

it also forgot to tell us that the UK sent almost 90 million quid to Somalia so it also forgot to say how much aid Scotland would receive from the UK

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas 75 connie View Post
i think and hope that Scotland will stay in the UK
All these figures that get banded about(no one knows the true figures)
Will Scotland be worse off who knows
Will the rest of the UK again who knows
Another thing this isnt England vs Scotland or vise versa its the whole country.

As it stands England is the least powerful of all the countries in the union-Why you ask Scotland has its own parliament,Wales does and so does NI but The parliament in Westminster is not Englands, just full of Scots
have edited your post to add fuel to the fire.... hope you don't mind

Last edited by Dragrad; 29th August 2014 at 22:32.. Reason: Consecutive posts - Use the edit ;-)
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Old 12th March 2014, 17:13   #49
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have edited your post to add fuel to the fire.... hope you don't mind
Im not smart enough to take offense
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Old 12th March 2014, 17:24   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas 75 connie View Post
Im not smart enough to take offense
Hehe,

Back on topic,

Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly have jurisdiction only over devolved legislation that affects only Scotland or Wales.

The Westminster Parliament has jurisdiction over the whole of the UK on all matters in England, and over those matters not devolved in Scotland and Wales.

So England does have its own parliament.
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