Nelson Mandela - Page 3

SapperGB · 25th June 2013, 01:15

It tickles me when people proclaim that this guy stood for the abolishment of apartheid yet fail to realise that The MK which he co-founded murdered, almost 150 black civilians, then fail to see that the 'legitimate target' kill rate was less than 7% of that figure. these are published figures and it is thought that the civilian death toll could be as many as 300.......

Of which Nelson Mandela pleaded guilty to 157 acts. but was never directly charged with murder
Lets take a quick look at just one of the many charges brought at his trial:

The preparation, manufacture and use of explosives—for the purpose of committing acts of violence and destruction in the aforesaid Republic, (the preparation and manufacture of explosives, according to evidence submitted, included 210,000 hand grenades, 48,000 anti-personnel mines, 1,500 time devices, 144 tons of ammonium nitrate, 21.6 tons of aluminum powder and a ton of black powder).

that's a hell of a lot of things that go bang! but then again it was all for a good cause, wasn't it? well no, it wasn't. The fact is that even Amnesty International refused to take on Nelson Mandela’s case because they asserted that he was no political prisoner but had committed numerous violent crimes and had had a fair trial and a reasonable sentence.

Why not make a comparison to Bin Laden? Or any other terrorist for that matter?
Bin Laden founded a militant group - as did Nelson Mandela. Al'Qaeda designated military and civilian as targets - as did MK. Both organisations found favour in bombings and mines (IED's) to fight their cause.

Gate Keeper · 25th June 2013, 02:53

Yes, yes, yes you have put together an argument that NM was no saint in the struggle against apartheid and the comparison to Bin Laden I see the points you have made (which I do not agree with, but that is the nature of having an opinion). In relation to Richards post where are you going with this? or is it that the point you made is that NM was a terrorist who was tried and never convicted of murder and that the matter is now laid to rest?

Reebs · 25th June 2013, 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by leopard680

There are other forums to join in with those that disagree with the ANC, but such conversation is well outside the scope of this thread.

I have to agree with this sentiment, NM is no saint it would seem, and the posts thus far have raised awareness of his history and background.

This is not the place to argue the rights and wrongs of his politics, that will always polarise views and lead to raised voices. We've had enough of that on the forums recently I think most will agree. Please folks do not turn this hot potato into a bun fight. Leave that for other platforms

P.S sorry for the food analogy, but I missed supper last night

Gate Keeper · 25th June 2013, 08:21

Fair comment and timely advice. Paul I hope you managed to get a 'pick me up' on the way to work

J1MBO · 25th June 2013, 08:50

Attention had been drawn to the fact that this thread had strayed towards political comment and was in danger of contravening FAQ 15.

Comment has continued, a post has been removed, therefore I have no option but to close the thread.

25th June 2013, 01:15	#21
SapperGB Posted a thing or two 2005 190 ZT-T SE Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dagenham Posts: 1,242 Thanks: 2 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	It tickles me when people proclaim that this guy stood for the abolishment of apartheid yet fail to realise that The MK which he co-founded murdered, almost 150 black civilians, then fail to see that the 'legitimate target' kill rate was less than 7% of that figure. these are published figures and it is thought that the civilian death toll could be as many as 300....... Of which Nelson Mandela pleaded guilty to 157 acts. but was never directly charged with murder Lets take a quick look at just one of the many charges brought at his trial: The preparation, manufacture and use of explosives—for the purpose of committing acts of violence and destruction in the aforesaid Republic, (the preparation and manufacture of explosives, according to evidence submitted, included 210,000 hand grenades, 48,000 anti-personnel mines, 1,500 time devices, 144 tons of ammonium nitrate, 21.6 tons of aluminum powder and a ton of black powder). that's a hell of a lot of things that go bang! but then again it was all for a good cause, wasn't it? well no, it wasn't. The fact is that even Amnesty International refused to take on Nelson Mandela’s case because they asserted that he was no political prisoner but had committed numerous violent crimes and had had a fair trial and a reasonable sentence. Why not make a comparison to Bin Laden? Or any other terrorist for that matter? Bin Laden founded a militant group - as did Nelson Mandela. Al'Qaeda designated military and civilian as targets - as did MK. Both organisations found favour in bombings and mines (IED's) to fight their cause. __________________ http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...GB/t4light.jpg

25th June 2013, 02:53	#22
Gate Keeper This is my second home 4X4 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nairobi Posts: 20,069 Thanks: 8,286 Thanked 7,017 Times in 4,160 Posts	Yes, yes, yes you have put together an argument that NM was no saint in the struggle against apartheid and the comparison to Bin Laden I see the points you have made (which I do not agree with, but that is the nature of having an opinion). In relation to Richards post where are you going with this? or is it that the point you made is that NM was a terrorist who was tried and never convicted of murder and that the matter is now laid to rest?

25th June 2013, 08:21	#24
Gate Keeper This is my second home 4X4 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nairobi Posts: 20,069 Thanks: 8,286 Thanked 7,017 Times in 4,160 Posts	Fair comment and timely advice. Paul I hope you managed to get a 'pick me up' on the way to work

25th June 2013, 08:50	#25
J1MBO This is my second home Roverless & now carless Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Wilmslow Posts: 15,583 Thanks: 2,457 Thanked 2,428 Times in 1,301 Posts	Attention had been drawn to the fact that this thread had strayed towards political comment and was in danger of contravening FAQ 15. Comment has continued, a post has been removed, therefore I have no option but to close the thread.