Strange CDT engine cutout and starting issue

Dvorak · 5th July 2016, 23:06

Hi all,

My beloved CDT seems a bit unhealthy.

I left the car for an extended period (around a month). Before this she has been running very well, and starts withing a second of cranking reliably.

Since I've started using the car again in the last week, there have been two problems which I presume are linked:

1) The car sometimes doesn't want to start. It has to be cranked a lot more than normal (a few seconds). If I stop, return the ignition to off, then try again, it works fine.

2) Stalling while running. While I was going down the motorway, the engine cut out for a little over a second, and the engine warning light came on. Without me doing anything, the light went off and the engine recovered. This has now happened a couple of times - I'm worried it could be dangerous if the engine cuts out completely.

Do you know what could be causing this? In the past I have had a stalling issue caused by a blocked fuel filter, but this didn't fix itself so quickly or stop the car from starting.

The tank is full, and the battery is fine.

Thanks very much for any help

klarzy · 5th July 2016, 23:17

plenum.....?

Dvorak · 6th July 2016, 07:19

All fine - modded, rodded and dry.

grteam · 6th July 2016, 08:03

Hello
Wen my first one had same sort of symptoms, it turned out to be the high pressure fuel pump regulator. Don't go for a used one, SHOULD YOU DECIDE YOU CAN AFFORD THIS TRIAL AND ERROR - A T4 SESSION MIGHT SHED SOME MORE LIGHT, you might want to spend a little more for peace of mind. Plenty of threads here about the replacing, a bit fiddly, but not difficult and long to DIY - depending on the comfort level you have around tools

andrewinpopayan · 6th July 2016, 14:25

Under bonnet fuel pump is a good place to start, you should hear it whirr into action when you turn the ignition on. I have seen them go intermittent and need a thump with a spanner to wake them up.

Mickyboy · 6th July 2016, 16:36

Possible injector leakback, I'd get it on a T4 machine or failing that put the bottles on a do a leakback test,

TomRS · 6th July 2016, 16:52

1. Check both fuel pump operation, there's one in tank and one under the bonnet.
Put the ignition on (dont crank) and listen to the one under the bonnet first if that whirrs into life and sounds healthy then turn of the igntion and unplug the little black connector on top of the pump.
Go back switch the igntion on, pop open the fuel lid and remove the cap, place you ear to it, should hear a high pitch whine, its quiet but audible.

2.Check for obvious leaks in obvious places, is air getting into the system?

3.Change the fuel filter

4.Check rail pressure and see if the HPFP is providing the correct pressure, it may need a seals kit (this does not require removal of the pump)

5.Injector leak back test (may require injectors cleaning/replacing)

I have had two CDTi's one on 156k and the other is on 119k both have never needed injectors, but its not unheard of.
I've cleaned them myself by removing them, makes a huge difference there is 5 pin hole nozzles that squirt the diesel into a bowl, if one of these becomes clogged with a tiny bit of grit then the spray pattern is disrupted and can cause diesel knock or smoke, my tourer had overly loud knock on part throttle turned out two of the four injectors had blocked nozzles.

Sorted them out and its fine now.

But yeah try those steps first and go from there!

Dvorak · 14th July 2016, 11:26

Thanks all for the advice, and sorry for the slow reply.

I think you're definitely right that it's a fuel supply issue. I was coming up the M6 the other day after a week of problem-free driving, when the engine went (with the engine management light) in the outside lane. It wouldn't start again - I ended up waiting from midnight to 3am in the rain at the roadside for recovery. It did start again after a while, so I'm going to check the fuel delivery system, starting with the filter. It was done 8000 miles ago, but the car has been left with not much fuel in the tank, so it occurred to me that rust might be an issue?

I think both pumps are working - will check again today.

TomRS · 14th July 2016, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dvorak

Thanks all for the advice, and sorry for the slow reply.

I think you're definitely right that it's a fuel supply issue. I was coming up the M6 the other day after a week of problem-free driving, when the engine went (with the engine management light) in the outside lane. It wouldn't start again - I ended up waiting from midnight to 3am in the rain at the roadside for recovery. It did start again after a while, so I'm going to check the fuel delivery system, starting with the filter. It was done 8000 miles ago, but the car has been left with not much fuel in the tank, so it occurred to me that rust might be an issue?

I think both pumps are working - will check again today.

Being a plastic tank rust shouldnt be an issue, although dirt and sludge from the pump thats built up in the tank could be a cause.
As i said check both pumps, Diesels will really only ever cut out when fueling is an issue.
They are at heart agricultural and very basic.

Crank position sensor could be an issue, i'd ideally want the codes read to see whats stored.
Any T4 gurus near you?

Start simple and check fuel supply first though, both pumps should operate and a replacement fuel filter is a good start.

Dvorak · 14th July 2016, 12:09

I didn't know it was a plastic tank! Scratch that theory then.

I will do some work and report back. Thanks a lot

.

5th July 2016, 23:06	#1
Dvorak Avid contributor Rover 75 Saloon CDT Copperleaf Red Join Date: May 2013 Location: Cumbria/Oxford Posts: 100 Thanks: 7 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Strange CDT engine cutout and starting issue Hi all, My beloved CDT seems a bit unhealthy. I left the car for an extended period (around a month). Before this she has been running very well, and starts withing a second of cranking reliably. Since I've started using the car again in the last week, there have been two problems which I presume are linked: 1) The car sometimes doesn't want to start. It has to be cranked a lot more than normal (a few seconds). If I stop, return the ignition to off, then try again, it works fine. 2) Stalling while running. While I was going down the motorway, the engine cut out for a little over a second, and the engine warning light came on. Without me doing anything, the light went off and the engine recovered. This has now happened a couple of times - I'm worried it could be dangerous if the engine cuts out completely. Do you know what could be causing this? In the past I have had a stalling issue caused by a blocked fuel filter, but this didn't fix itself so quickly or stop the car from starting. The tank is full, and the battery is fine. Thanks very much for any help

5th July 2016, 23:17	#2
klarzy This is my second home none but not gone Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: March, Cambs Posts: 16,437 Thanks: 894 Thanked 4,247 Times in 3,025 Posts	plenum.....? __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]….All praise Bananaswan….

6th July 2016, 08:03	#4
grteam Avid contributor 75 Mk II CDTi Saloon ''Charlie Bravo Tango'' Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Bruges, Belgium Posts: 152 Thanks: 67 Thanked 41 Times in 26 Posts	Hello Wen my first one had same sort of symptoms, it turned out to be the high pressure fuel pump regulator. Don't go for a used one, SHOULD YOU DECIDE YOU CAN AFFORD THIS TRIAL AND ERROR - A T4 SESSION MIGHT SHED SOME MORE LIGHT, you might want to spend a little more for peace of mind. Plenty of threads here about the replacing, a bit fiddly, but not difficult and long to DIY - depending on the comfort level you have around tools __________________ My other car is a motorcycle with boxer engine At my third Rover 75 now [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

6th July 2016, 14:25	#5
andrewinpopayan Loves to post Rover 75 CDT manual tourer SE with farkles Join Date: May 2014 Location: Bradford BD12 Posts: 497 Thanks: 148 Thanked 73 Times in 62 Posts	Under bonnet fuel pump is a good place to start, you should hear it whirr into action when you turn the ignition on. I have seen them go intermittent and need a thump with a spanner to wake them up. __________________ 2001 75 2.0 CDT tourer. Bodges and "quick fixes" have a nasty habit of reminding you at the MOST inconvenient AND expensive time that you should have done the job properly in the first place.!

6th July 2016, 16:36	#6
Mickyboy SERVICING AND DEALER DIAGNOSTICS MG ZT CDTI 135 + & MGZT CDTI AUTO 160 & ROVER 75 TOURER CDTI 160 TROPHY YELLOW Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Hernebay Posts: 4,331 Thanks: 818 Thanked 2,414 Times in 1,141 Posts	Possible injector leakback, I'd get it on a T4 machine or failing that put the bottles on a do a leakback test, __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] T4 Owner Jobs done : new UBP, Spy hole mod, Rear hub(wheel bearing),plenum cleaned and emptied, Inline thermostat fitted,Full service, In car Digital tv/DVD Bluetooth Satnav etc, Replaced UBP, Restored headlights,Fixed airbag connection.replaced HP pump,replaced rear light seals,changed intercooler O rings. Jobs to do: ,replace drivers lock,.[/SIZE]

6th July 2016, 07:19	#3
Dvorak Avid contributor Rover 75 Saloon CDT Copperleaf Red Join Date: May 2013 Location: Cumbria/Oxford Posts: 100 Thanks: 7 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	All fine - modded, rodded and dry.

6th July 2016, 16:52	#7
TomRS Posted a thing or two Mk1 ZT 190 - Mk2 ZS 180 - Mercedes E63 AMG S - Ford Ranger Hawk Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Middlesbrough Posts: 1,456 Thanks: 123 Thanked 409 Times in 281 Posts	1. Check both fuel pump operation, there's one in tank and one under the bonnet. Put the ignition on (dont crank) and listen to the one under the bonnet first if that whirrs into life and sounds healthy then turn of the igntion and unplug the little black connector on top of the pump. Go back switch the igntion on, pop open the fuel lid and remove the cap, place you ear to it, should hear a high pitch whine, its quiet but audible. 2.Check for obvious leaks in obvious places, is air getting into the system? 3.Change the fuel filter 4.Check rail pressure and see if the HPFP is providing the correct pressure, it may need a seals kit (this does not require removal of the pump) 5.Injector leak back test (may require injectors cleaning/replacing) I have had two CDTi's one on 156k and the other is on 119k both have never needed injectors, but its not unheard of. I've cleaned them myself by removing them, makes a huge difference there is 5 pin hole nozzles that squirt the diesel into a bowl, if one of these becomes clogged with a tiny bit of grit then the spray pattern is disrupted and can cause diesel knock or smoke, my tourer had overly loud knock on part throttle turned out two of the four injectors had blocked nozzles. Sorted them out and its fine now. But yeah try those steps first and go from there!

14th July 2016, 11:26	#8
Dvorak Avid contributor Rover 75 Saloon CDT Copperleaf Red Join Date: May 2013 Location: Cumbria/Oxford Posts: 100 Thanks: 7 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks all for the advice, and sorry for the slow reply. I think you're definitely right that it's a fuel supply issue. I was coming up the M6 the other day after a week of problem-free driving, when the engine went (with the engine management light) in the outside lane. It wouldn't start again - I ended up waiting from midnight to 3am in the rain at the roadside for recovery. It did start again after a while, so I'm going to check the fuel delivery system, starting with the filter. It was done 8000 miles ago, but the car has been left with not much fuel in the tank, so it occurred to me that rust might be an issue? I think both pumps are working - will check again today.

14th July 2016, 12:09	#10
Dvorak Avid contributor Rover 75 Saloon CDT Copperleaf Red Join Date: May 2013 Location: Cumbria/Oxford Posts: 100 Thanks: 7 Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts	I didn't know it was a plastic tank! Scratch that theory then. I will do some work and report back. Thanks a lot .