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Old 16th May 2019, 14:47   #31
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From my point of view, I am not, not accepting the figures, but questioning their relevance. As mentioned before, there were no zero hour contracts, youth development and employment schemes etc in the 70s. A like for like comparison is the only way it can accurately reflect on the differences. I would bet this has not been done (likely impossible too). To me, unless evidence of a direct comparison is made, the figures may be correct and improved, they are useless.

A country to country comparison is just pointless and serves no purpose other than bragging rights at the un.

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Old 16th May 2019, 20:42   #32
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You dont have to accept anyone's opinion, just accept that they can have one, and a differing one to yours. By all means try to change theirs by showing and demonstrating why you believe it to be wrong.

I am of the opinion that everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if it is different to mine, just because they are wrong, doesnt mean they cannot have one
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Old 16th May 2019, 20:42   #33
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making 'assumptions' and 'making account' of data, will not produce accurate figures. These assumed figures could project numbers that are 0.1 or 0.2% up and down, which allows those declaring the figures to effectively lie about them. I do take your point where they try to make these allowances, because I believe it would be impossible to manage a direct comparisons from the past to now. But that is another of my points, the past is irrelevant and to promote increased employment in this way, in my cynical mind serves two purposes. The first, to make the current ruling party (cant avoid politics in this one - sorry) look good leading up to an election or during a rough patch in their tenure. Each party will claim the credit for doing it, even though it has come from previous years' of effort. The second reason is slight of hand, make the population feel good about something and then hit them with something uncomfortable.

But back to the figures, which is my issue. As I said, I have no interest in looking up anything about it, (there are many .gov statistic and research sites that break it all down into neat little Excel Worksheets/books, out there - I am not taking my work home with me). A 0.1% movement is all it takes for those in charge to claim an improvement, however that 0.1% can change in a couple of months and will likely change over the next few years. (let's not go there lol)

In the 80's how the count was conducted was changed. From the unemployed to those claiming unemployment benefit. Because of that, it would not be unreasonable to believe that during the 90s when there was a major overhaul of the benefits system (supplementary benefit/Jobseekers Allowance etc), that these figures could all be adjusted out by as 10-20% (of the numbers claiming unemployment benefit) in one swoop! As those claiming supplementary benefit would no longer be eligible, and were moved onto a different benefit, which removed them from the stats.

I am not even going to think about other countries figures, as whilst they are supposed to follow the same guidelines, they too will have their own benefit system, allowances, and their terms of claiming them.

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This above all is the straw which will break ... Correction, is clearly already breaking...
But John, that is opposite of what the figures are saying. Unemployment going down whilst population is increasing, makes it look like there are even more jobs out there. My point (repetitively stated) is the figures do not incorporate the different status the authorities place upon people.

PIP benefits or whatever they are called now, will also reclassify people who claim benefits now.
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Old 17th May 2019, 00:58   #34
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exactly, and with these figures, they have been, each time they changed the benefits. The measurements, I have since discovered, remain the same, it is the categorisation of the claimants that has changed.
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Old 17th May 2019, 08:02   #35
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Cut and paste of numbers in situations such as this is not proper analysis, unless it is made clear what each number represents.

As I pointed out in post #13, the UK numbers do not include people on zero-hour contracts, especially people on such contracts and offered relatively low hours. Adding these doubles our roughly unemployment rate relative to Germany, for example, where such contracts are not a feature of employments contracts. The same applies in about a dozen European countries.

https://www.globalworkplaceinsider.c...ts-in-germany/

To use statistics such as these as a measure of the country's financial and employment well being, the measure should have at least three dimensions - employment percentage, worked hours per working-age head and average wage per hour. Another useful measure would be the percentage of people in employment who supplement their income with employment benefits.


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Many UK careers and jobs exported to the Mainland over the decades, including two of mine.

Still why should I care, I'm alright Jack. I'm off to purchase a nice new BMW. Such purchases help the economy and create many careers and jobs.
In reality far more to China, India and the far-east.

Opening a thread that describes those who may have a differing viewpoint as "Doom and Gloom Merchants" is an interesting but characteristic approach to "mature debates" by certain individuals.
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Old 17th May 2019, 11:17   #36
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Purely in the interests of making sure you do not have the last word, your interlocutor has indicated his dissatisfaction with threads such as this on a club forum such as this. In support of his decision he has earlier pressed for closure. That’s a shame and to be regretted. His contributions were interesting and some were lengthy and well worth reading.

However, a conclusion is that there might be other reasons for his departure. He implies car forums are not suitable for these subjects in spite of the threads being well supported, including by his own contributions. Also, and curiously, there seems a general absence of the dreaded 'censor' bar over inappropriate profanities that so often pollute threads.

A very brief glance at his posting history from his first one shows an extensive contribution to car-related threads as well as an equally extensive history on a variety of subjects other than cars. Indeed many of them concerning what might be classed as socio/politico/national matters. It is a shame he feels unable to continue and I would wish him well for the future.
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Old 17th May 2019, 11:26   #37
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This is a strange event. One would never have expected Wraymond to post expressing is full, unequivocal and unreserved admiration of DD's postings (or vice versa)!

Wot, did someone mention cliques? There are no such things on this forum.............
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Old 17th May 2019, 11:57   #38
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Just very quickly, adding the percentage to each other would be incorrect. Add the 780000 to the number of unemployed then divide that by the number eligible to work, multiply by 100. Probably will add half to one per cent.

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Old 17th May 2019, 12:56   #39
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I am being a broken record, but those figures would.be enough to make.the figures look more positive than they actually are, and dispel the claims. How many zero hour contracts were included in 1974?

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Old 17th May 2019, 14:57   #40
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Something to do with yeuo know what?
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