Legal Eagles

brum29 · 27th June 2008, 08:43

Hi gang, hope there are some legal eagles out there who may be able to help. Have a Policy which covers plumbing and drainage.

In a thread yesterday I mention I had a water leakage between the floor of my two bathrooms. The plummer came thought he'd sorted it and left but before he actually went he said that if it starts again and when/if he comes back he would like to take down part of the down stairs bathroom ceiling to investigate further.

I said that would be a big job and and jokingly said can you do plastering as well he said not down to him/company cost for reinstatement for material and labour would be down to me.

Looked at terms and conditions, couldn't find any thing that stated I was liable and phoned their Admin Dept. they came back with clause :-

The cover limits stated in both Sections (A-plumbing, B-drains) incudes the cost of call-out labour, materials and VAT. It does not include payment for the restoration of any fixture or fittings (e.g. fitted units, special floor coverings such as wood block or ceramic tiles etc) removed in the process of conducting the emergency repair.

They insist that the ceiling is a fixture/fitting, I said it was part of the building structure and not as they stated. They are steadfast in their opinion and will not budge. The plummer is coming back between 12 and 2pm and not sure which way to go. Any help please would be greatly appreciated.

Greeners · 27th June 2008, 08:44

If it's not covered by that policy (ceilings are definately not fixtures and fittings) then you'll be covered on your normal household policy.

brum29 · 27th June 2008, 09:06

Thanks David, I apreciate what you say but what if you didn't have household insurance, I have but others may not. The point I'm trying to get sorted is whatever part they they remove of the building fabric they should reinstate. They have told me if they had to take any floor boards up they would put them back again but not ceilings as this is part of the fixtures and fittings.

baxlin · 27th June 2008, 09:57

Whew!!

I suspect they may have condemned themselves by admitting they would make good any floors but not ceilings, as you wouldn't expect to buy a house with one and not the other.

Interesting about the household buidings insurance. If you'd made the claim to this insurer first, they would have said damage caused BY a water leak is covered, but not the repair to what caused it. So they would presumably have paid for the ceiling.

As however the ceiling appears to have been taken down by the plumber, I'm not sure.

What is clear though, you MUST speak to your buildings insurer, be it broker or company if you bought direct, as soon as possible, and get them on the case. You could tell them that you had no option but to get the plumber in as you were worried that more damage would have been caused if you had delayed...........

Please note, these comments must be taken in the way they are offered, as general observations, and not as an interpretation of policy small print, nor of the law.

malcolm

smcaul · 27th June 2008, 09:58

No legal expert, but, I am sure ceilings are part of building not F&F, and if not specifically excluded in policy then I would argue that they are covered.

brum29 · 27th June 2008, 10:40

Don't know if I made myself clear in original post but the leak is in the pipework above the ceiling of the downstairs bathroom.

The ceiling itself is not water damaged except for a spot around the light fitting, say about 6" diametre the other point of exit for the water has been at the bottom of the covered soil pipe where some pipes come out of which go to the downstairs radiator.

The ceiling the plumber wants to take down probably measures about 5' x 3' and is not affect by any water damage, he wants to take it down just for access and inspection as the bath upstairs is along the wall where the soil pipe is. If the repair was or could be done just lifting the floor boards there would be no problem but would assume has he want that part of the ceiling down it would be up to him to put it back, what do you say.

27th June 2008, 08:43	#1
brum29 Passed Away Rover 75 Tourer 2L CDT Club SE 2002 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: B.V.T - Birmingham Posts: 832 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Legal Eagles Hi gang, hope there are some legal eagles out there who may be able to help. Have a Policy which covers plumbing and drainage. In a thread yesterday I mention I had a water leakage between the floor of my two bathrooms. The plummer came thought he'd sorted it and left but before he actually went he said that if it starts again and when/if he comes back he would like to take down part of the down stairs bathroom ceiling to investigate further. I said that would be a big job and and jokingly said can you do plastering as well he said not down to him/company cost for reinstatement for material and labour would be down to me. Looked at terms and conditions, couldn't find any thing that stated I was liable and phoned their Admin Dept. they came back with clause :- The cover limits stated in both Sections (A-plumbing, B-drains) incudes the cost of call-out labour, materials and VAT. It does not include payment for the restoration of any fixture or fittings (e.g. fitted units, special floor coverings such as wood block or ceramic tiles etc) removed in the process of conducting the emergency repair. They insist that the ceiling is a fixture/fitting, I said it was part of the building structure and not as they stated. They are steadfast in their opinion and will not budge. The plummer is coming back between 12 and 2pm and not sure which way to go. Any help please would be greatly appreciated.

27th June 2008, 08:44	#2
Greeners Moderator MG-ZTT Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 19,798 Thanks: 161 Thanked 1,249 Times in 1,036 Posts	If it's not covered by that policy (ceilings are definately not fixtures and fittings) then you'll be covered on your normal household policy. __________________ *David* Impecunity is the mother of ingenuity Useful how to's for common problems Car Of The Month Jan 2014 [SatNav Power Down] [Coolant Level] [SatNav Repair] [Diesel Non Starting] [Paint Codes] [Rear Light Seals] [Reversing Light Switch] [Bleeding Brakes][Sunroof Drain] [Early ZT's][Instrument Pack Diagnostics][ATC Diagnostics]

27th June 2008, 09:57	#4
baxlin This is my second home Volvo C70 Convertible and JZR 3 wheeler Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tring, Herts Posts: 3,960 Thanks: 124 Thanked 173 Times in 124 Posts	Whew!! I suspect they may have condemned themselves by admitting they would make good any floors but not ceilings, as you wouldn't expect to buy a house with one and not the other. Interesting about the household buidings insurance. If you'd made the claim to this insurer first, they would have said damage caused BY a water leak is covered, but not the repair to what caused it. So they would presumably have paid for the ceiling. As however the ceiling appears to have been taken down by the plumber, I'm not sure. What is clear though, you MUST speak to your buildings insurer, be it broker or company if you bought direct, as soon as possible, and get them on the case. You could tell them that you had no option but to get the plumber in as you were worried that more damage would have been caused if you had delayed........... Please note, these comments must be taken in the way they are offered, as general observations, and not as an interpretation of policy small print, nor of the law. malcolm __________________ Only my opinion, obviously, so please don’t shoot me if it doesn’t match yours!

27th June 2008, 09:58	#5
smcaul Loves to post Rover 75 Saloon CDT Club Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southampton Posts: 481 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	No legal expert, but, I am sure ceilings are part of building not F&F, and if not specifically excluded in policy then I would argue that they are covered. __________________ Just a few of my favorite pictures Click Here Freedom isn't free. Somebody paid!

27th June 2008, 09:06	#3
brum29 Passed Away Rover 75 Tourer 2L CDT Club SE 2002 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: B.V.T - Birmingham Posts: 832 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks David, I apreciate what you say but what if you didn't have household insurance, I have but others may not. The point I'm trying to get sorted is whatever part they they remove of the building fabric they should reinstate. They have told me if they had to take any floor boards up they would put them back again but not ceilings as this is part of the fixtures and fittings.

27th June 2008, 10:40	#6
brum29 Passed Away Rover 75 Tourer 2L CDT Club SE 2002 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: B.V.T - Birmingham Posts: 832 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Don't know if I made myself clear in original post but the leak is in the pipework above the ceiling of the downstairs bathroom. The ceiling itself is not water damaged except for a spot around the light fitting, say about 6" diametre the other point of exit for the water has been at the bottom of the covered soil pipe where some pipes come out of which go to the downstairs radiator. The ceiling the plumber wants to take down probably measures about 5' x 3' and is not affect by any water damage, he wants to take it down just for access and inspection as the bath upstairs is along the wall where the soil pipe is. If the repair was or could be done just lifting the floor boards there would be no problem but would assume has he want that part of the ceiling down it would be up to him to put it back, what do you say.