Disaster - cambelt failure, KV6 heads wanted - Page 10

trikey · 9th February 2022, 10:03

Did you replace the earth wire on the rear bank to the top of the cam cover? This can cause the misfire.

xsport · 9th February 2022, 16:57

i think trikey is right. i seem to recall one earth point at the rear bank for repositioning after my last workout in there. definitely one on the front bank to body stay bar.

xsport · 9th February 2022, 17:02

stewart will know that running lpg is very severe on coil packs and plugs. if he has had them on a while. without the earth connected this could well have finished one off, particularly as its the number 6 cylinder on the rear bank. ...

xsport · 9th February 2022, 17:10

wish you had taken note of post 86 stewart ...

maybe you will need to drill out the bore on the manifold flange to introduce a bolt and nut fixing. you wont be able to drill the existing broken stud out as they are extremely hard. you may be lucky tapping it out but they are splined and well tempered into position , as i found out. ....

StewartIngram · 9th February 2022, 19:40

I thought I had replaced that earth wire, with everything complete I can't see anything dangling......but I will investigate.
At the moment I'm running solely on petrol, lpg not yet complete as I'm awaiting a temp sender for the reducer (another of those frayed wire solder bodges that I'm replacing).
Strangely enough, although I've heard all this about lpg being hard on components, I've found the exact opposite! I've never had a coil fail before, been typically on 20k miles per annum since 2007, normally on lpg. Spark plugs - they last for ever (and a bit more). I replaced them when I converted this car to lpg (iridium again) after about 250k of use out of them. I gave up regular servicing on them years ago, as I used to find nothing wrong with them. They really do keep clean, and never need the gap adjusting. Only thing I've found (and this was more relevant with the Sterling I had before), was to be careful of the hotter exhaust pipe, when parking on grass if I visited a car rally in the summer. I've heard of the dry grass being set alight....
Strange one about the message centre though, any ideas?
Weather permitting, the new rear manifold and centre exhaust on tomorrow.

edit: forgot to add - after the oil flush/change, the engine has quietened down nicely (except of course the misfire and exhaust problems). Rattles have all gone.

xsport · 11th February 2022, 11:36

in days gone by , plugs were not as good. i agree. iridium has changed a lot of things. iridium is what i use , but i did set my gaps closer than recomended as this was advised in the past. i too have had no problems with plug or coil packs. the only thing i did wonder about was the length of life of the newer " pencil " type coils. certainly not an issue with petrol use , but i wondered if the older type that were remote away from the plugs were better. does yours have these pencil coils on ? as mine does not as mine is 2001 build. ...

StewartIngram · 11th February 2022, 19:09

I tackled 3 things today.
Exhaust - I fitted it yesterday; brand new rear manifold (to replace the broken stud - note this sheared when I undid it, with plenty of penetrating oil); new centre section (& the rear section would NOT part from this, I ended up removing the whole exhaust and resorting to a large hammer!), this meant I had to cut off the recently renewed rear rubbers, and had no replacements in stock. So today's job was temporary cable ties, then 10 mile round trip to Halfords (hate that place) to pick up new ones and fit them.
Cylinder 6 misfire - I took off the top inlet manifold to check that earth wire was present (it was). But I noticed that cyl 6 injector connector had fallen off - I must have missed clicking it in place when I fitted it a couple of days ago. Refitted the top, she now runs on all six cyls, though feels a little 'harsh'. I'll have a better look tomorrow, I've now got another fault light so that should tell me more.
LPG - did the final bit of re-installation today (a broken temp sender). Again, I'll check it out tomorrow, & re-calibrate it if necessary.
Petrol - I've been getting petrol smells wafting into the cabin. I think there are 3 possible causes; No.6 cyl fault, exhaust blowing, and possibly fuel tank under the rear seat. The 1st 2 symptoms seem to have been fixed, but it looks like the fuel gauge is playing up again, so I'm down to an exam of the tank pump/filter/floats again I'm familiar with that set up, so not too worried about tackling it.
Though this started as a disastrous cambelt failure, I've attended to quite a few other things on the way. they were not necessarily faults previously, but a general upgrade of their condition rather than putting up with degrading conditions, all better for the future.

edit: forgot to add, the message centre behaved today when I went out later - was it related to the cyl 6 fault I wonder....

StewartIngram · 12th March 2022, 10:47

Been a while since I posted, but weather permitting I have been doing other odd little jobs.
Firstly, as noted on my other thread, I seem to have sorted out the fuel gauge by replacing the filter float . Had a problem also with tank rings, stretching after installation. I still have a smell of petrol at the front end, and a water leak from the thermostat housing. But I have one query - is it possible to check the timing, and what should it be? More just me worrying a little, in the good old days of distributors and carburettors I would have used my timing light. I just want to be sure! I want to assure myself that the belt isn't just one tooth out. She seems a tad sluggish on acceleration, and with the smell of petrol fumes (not too bad) I do wonder if that is causing excessive consumption, even on lpg it could be leaking? I shall know shortly as I am about to check for petrol leaks, water leaks etc all in one go.

SD1too · 12th March 2022, 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by StewartIngram

... I have one query - is it possible to check the timing ...

I'm afraid not Stewart. There's no ignition timing data and no markings at which to shine your timing light.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StewartIngram

I want to assure myself that the belt isn't just one tooth out.

That, of course, is valve timing and would result in far more serious running problems than sluggish acceleration. To tackle that, take off the cam covers and check that the breather pinholes behind the gauze filters are clear. Also make sure that both your VIS actuators and flaps are working.

Your "water leak from the thermostat housing" will actually be flattened 'O' rings. Renew them and finish by setting the serrated clips on the straight pipe as I've described in many previous posts. This will prevent a recurrence.

Simon

StewartIngram · 12th March 2022, 17:30

Sorry but wrong on both counts I'm afraid. Todays investigations found 2 definite faults.
Petrol - injectors 2 4 & 6 all damp with petrol, top seemed tobe leaking on 2 & 4, and with 6 removed, it wasn't seated right. Probably my fault, I'll sort that in the morning when I finish putting it back together.
Water - I thought I had previously seen a leak from the join on the thermostat, though difficult to see it properly in situ. Well yes, there were traces of leaks from there, and from the lower connection into the block. But more important was the adjacent curved pipe going into the block. Upon removal I found the serious leak at the join to the block, as the flange was broken off in the hole. Luckily in one piece, as a ring, but not sealing. Anyway, both the pipe and the thermostat have been successfully renewed. In the morning I'll finish putting on the rest of the bits (inlet manifolds, injectors etc).
At least my mind is more at rest with the timing now.
Other thing to do is another mod concerned with the lpg conversion, which I haven't bothered with before. Basicly to add a relay which cuts off the petrol pump when the lpg switches over to gas. This should ensure that the fuel rail is not pressurised when petrol is not needed. I suspect I have been losing petrol - maybe only a fine spray, but enough to notice - because the pump has been running, whilst I've been on gas. Probably made a difference to performance too.
As an aside, my daughter headed off to Wales yesterday. She sent me a pic of a Shell garage near Shrewsbury, lpg was 137.9/L (!). This morning I paid the usual 72.4p locally at Morrisons, and have been paying 52p (expect I probably still can) at the local gas supplier in Peterborough.

9th February 2022, 10:03	#91
trikey Premium Trader Rover 75 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 33,801 Thanks: 8,837 Thanked 14,831 Times in 8,030 Posts	Did you replace the earth wire on the rear bank to the top of the cam cover? This can cause the misfire. __________________ Lest we forget..

9th February 2022, 19:40	#95
StewartIngram Gets stuck in Rover 75 Connoisseur 2.5 V6 auto Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire Posts: 910 Thanks: 320 Thanked 159 Times in 127 Posts	I thought I had replaced that earth wire, with everything complete I can't see anything dangling......but I will investigate. At the moment I'm running solely on petrol, lpg not yet complete as I'm awaiting a temp sender for the reducer (another of those frayed wire solder bodges that I'm replacing). Strangely enough, although I've heard all this about lpg being hard on components, I've found the exact opposite! I've never had a coil fail before, been typically on 20k miles per annum since 2007, normally on lpg. Spark plugs - they last for ever (and a bit more). I replaced them when I converted this car to lpg (iridium again) after about 250k of use out of them. I gave up regular servicing on them years ago, as I used to find nothing wrong with them. They really do keep clean, and never need the gap adjusting. Only thing I've found (and this was more relevant with the Sterling I had before), was to be careful of the hotter exhaust pipe, when parking on grass if I visited a car rally in the summer. I've heard of the dry grass being set alight.... Strange one about the message centre though, any ideas? Weather permitting, the new rear manifold and centre exhaust on tomorrow. edit: forgot to add - after the oil flush/change, the engine has quietened down nicely (except of course the misfire and exhaust problems). Rattles have all gone. Last edited by StewartIngram; 9th February 2022 at 19:46..

12th March 2022, 17:30	#100
StewartIngram Gets stuck in Rover 75 Connoisseur 2.5 V6 auto Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire Posts: 910 Thanks: 320 Thanked 159 Times in 127 Posts	Sorry but wrong on both counts I'm afraid. Todays investigations found 2 definite faults. Petrol - injectors 2 4 & 6 all damp with petrol, top seemed tobe leaking on 2 & 4, and with 6 removed, it wasn't seated right. Probably my fault, I'll sort that in the morning when I finish putting it back together. Water - I thought I had previously seen a leak from the join on the thermostat, though difficult to see it properly in situ. Well yes, there were traces of leaks from there, and from the lower connection into the block. But more important was the adjacent curved pipe going into the block. Upon removal I found the serious leak at the join to the block, as the flange was broken off in the hole. Luckily in one piece, as a ring, but not sealing. Anyway, both the pipe and the thermostat have been successfully renewed. In the morning I'll finish putting on the rest of the bits (inlet manifolds, injectors etc). At least my mind is more at rest with the timing now. Other thing to do is another mod concerned with the lpg conversion, which I haven't bothered with before. Basicly to add a relay which cuts off the petrol pump when the lpg switches over to gas. This should ensure that the fuel rail is not pressurised when petrol is not needed. I suspect I have been losing petrol - maybe only a fine spray, but enough to notice - because the pump has been running, whilst I've been on gas. Probably made a difference to performance too. As an aside, my daughter headed off to Wales yesterday. She sent me a pic of a Shell garage near Shrewsbury, lpg was 137.9/L (!). This morning I paid the usual 72.4p locally at Morrisons, and have been paying 52p (expect I probably still can) at the local gas supplier in Peterborough. Last edited by StewartIngram; 12th March 2022 at 17:33..

9th February 2022, 16:57	#92
xsport Posted a thing or two rover 75 club se Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Leicester Posts: 1,681 Thanks: 358 Thanked 419 Times in 310 Posts	i think trikey is right. i seem to recall one earth point at the rear bank for repositioning after my last workout in there. definitely one on the front bank to body stay bar.

9th February 2022, 17:02	#93
xsport Posted a thing or two rover 75 club se Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Leicester Posts: 1,681 Thanks: 358 Thanked 419 Times in 310 Posts	stewart will know that running lpg is very severe on coil packs and plugs. if he has had them on a while. without the earth connected this could well have finished one off, particularly as its the number 6 cylinder on the rear bank. ...

9th February 2022, 17:10	#94
xsport Posted a thing or two rover 75 club se Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Leicester Posts: 1,681 Thanks: 358 Thanked 419 Times in 310 Posts	wish you had taken note of post 86 stewart ... maybe you will need to drill out the bore on the manifold flange to introduce a bolt and nut fixing. you wont be able to drill the existing broken stud out as they are extremely hard. you may be lucky tapping it out but they are splined and well tempered into position , as i found out. ....

11th February 2022, 11:36	#96
xsport Posted a thing or two rover 75 club se Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Leicester Posts: 1,681 Thanks: 358 Thanked 419 Times in 310 Posts	in days gone by , plugs were not as good. i agree. iridium has changed a lot of things. iridium is what i use , but i did set my gaps closer than recomended as this was advised in the past. i too have had no problems with plug or coil packs. the only thing i did wonder about was the length of life of the newer " pencil " type coils. certainly not an issue with petrol use , but i wondered if the older type that were remote away from the plugs were better. does yours have these pencil coils on ? as mine does not as mine is 2001 build. ...

11th February 2022, 19:09	#97
StewartIngram Gets stuck in Rover 75 Connoisseur 2.5 V6 auto Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire Posts: 910 Thanks: 320 Thanked 159 Times in 127 Posts	I tackled 3 things today. Exhaust - I fitted it yesterday; brand new rear manifold (to replace the broken stud - note this sheared when I undid it, with plenty of penetrating oil); new centre section (& the rear section would NOT part from this, I ended up removing the whole exhaust and resorting to a large hammer!), this meant I had to cut off the recently renewed rear rubbers, and had no replacements in stock. So today's job was temporary cable ties, then 10 mile round trip to Halfords (hate that place) to pick up new ones and fit them. Cylinder 6 misfire - I took off the top inlet manifold to check that earth wire was present (it was). But I noticed that cyl 6 injector connector had fallen off - I must have missed clicking it in place when I fitted it a couple of days ago. Refitted the top, she now runs on all six cyls, though feels a little 'harsh'. I'll have a better look tomorrow, I've now got another fault light so that should tell me more. LPG - did the final bit of re-installation today (a broken temp sender). Again, I'll check it out tomorrow, & re-calibrate it if necessary. Petrol - I've been getting petrol smells wafting into the cabin. I think there are 3 possible causes; No.6 cyl fault, exhaust blowing, and possibly fuel tank under the rear seat. The 1st 2 symptoms seem to have been fixed, but it looks like the fuel gauge is playing up again, so I'm down to an exam of the tank pump/filter/floats again I'm familiar with that set up, so not too worried about tackling it. Though this started as a disastrous cambelt failure, I've attended to quite a few other things on the way. they were not necessarily faults previously, but a general upgrade of their condition rather than putting up with degrading conditions, all better for the future. edit: forgot to add, the message centre behaved today when I went out later - was it related to the cyl 6 fault I wonder....

12th March 2022, 10:47	#98
StewartIngram Gets stuck in Rover 75 Connoisseur 2.5 V6 auto Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire Posts: 910 Thanks: 320 Thanked 159 Times in 127 Posts	Been a while since I posted, but weather permitting I have been doing other odd little jobs. Firstly, as noted on my other thread, I seem to have sorted out the fuel gauge by replacing the filter float . Had a problem also with tank rings, stretching after installation. I still have a smell of petrol at the front end, and a water leak from the thermostat housing. But I have one query - is it possible to check the timing, and what should it be? More just me worrying a little, in the good old days of distributors and carburettors I would have used my timing light. I just want to be sure! I want to assure myself that the belt isn't just one tooth out. She seems a tad sluggish on acceleration, and with the smell of petrol fumes (not too bad) I do wonder if that is causing excessive consumption, even on lpg it could be leaking? I shall know shortly as I am about to check for petrol leaks, water leaks etc all in one go.