Pinking. I think.. (Hope!!:()

[Phil]

Originally Posted by sworks

As allready said, sounds like a distributer issue. If you use a strobe light to set it as it should be this won't account for any wear, mark it where it's at now (so it can be returned if need be) and retard it a bit at a time to see if it stops.

Originally Posted by podge

It should be quite easy to set it up static wise and I think you have a starting handle....makes it easier to do! I will try and find out some details laier.P,

Originally Posted by 2Diesels

Static timing's dead easy Phil just line up yor marks on the crank pulley then set the thumbwheel vernier to the middle psition & turn the dizzy body until the points just begin to break & you should be somewhere near

Regards Col

Originally Posted by BigRuss

Also you can use a bulb to set the static timing.

First of all set the points gap, and as Col says set the thumbwheel midway

Use a bulb in a bulb holder with wires attached attach one wire to earth and the other to the terminal of the coil that is connected to the points.

Line up the timing marks on the flywheel and with ignition on and HT disconnected from the coil, rotate the distributor until a point where the slightest movement turns the bulb on or off.

Tighten the distributor and double check that it hasn't moved during tightening it up.

The static timing should now be as correct as it can be.

Next thing is the dwell angle, this should be 35 +/- 3 degs

There's various ways you can do this if there isn't a second mark already on the flywheel, the simplest is to count the number of teeth on the flywheel and divide 360 by the number of teeth this will give you the amount of degrees for each tooth of the flywheel.

Rotate the crank that number of teeth and make a second mark, this will give you the dwell angle.

With the engine on the original marks rotate the engine with the static bulb timing light connected as above if the points are still open when the second mark is passed the the points then the dwell angle is too small and the points gap is too wide. The opposite also applies if the points close before the second mark the dwell is too large and the points gap is too small.

If you make any adjustment to the points gap then the static timing will have to be adjusted slightly to compensate as above.

The next step then is to try and balance out the wear in the advance mechanism using the thumbwheel and a strobe and balancing it out as best as you can.

God, this takes me back, haven't had to do this kind of thing in years.


Russ

Originally Posted by James.uk

Hiya Phil.

It's NOT a bottom end problem! :lol: Taking your foot off the pedal won't mend a worn main or big-end bearing!!

I would try to get another distributor from a local scrapyard, once it's off the car you can check it for play easily and provided it doesn't have worn bearings or anything, it should be fine.

I am no elec, but I think some dizzies have a condensor and other elec stuff built in? It may be worth checking on that side of things.
.

Originally Posted by Greeners

ECU Dr for older cars

Originally Posted by podge

Hi Phil, a couple of links...


http://www.roverp4.com/


http://www.head2head.free-online.co.uk/Rover/engine.htm

can you identify the Lucas distibutor number? it is stamped on the body,near the clamp.I have a database that should then identify the static/dynamic advance.Years ago one of my freinds used to use a Rover 105R.............as a Taxi!!

Cheers guys. I've registered on the P4 forum. I'm told the dizzy is a 25d6 model? Thankss for the explanation of static timing. I kid you not in the whole time I've been in the trade, which is only ten years, I've never had to do static timing, or points. I think its the dizzy, you can hear the distributor over the engine at idle! I now need to find out how far I need to rertard the timing for unleaded fuel.
It was suggested today by a colleague that if its carbonned up and needs a decoke, it will pink.

[podge]

There should be a service number on the dizzy that begins with 4, the 25d6 is a generic type.Have a scroll down this list


http://www.mgaroadster.co.uk/lucas.pdf

there are a few companies about who will rebuild your old one...at a price?On my 69 MG the old dizzy was so shot I elected to bite the bullet and get one of these.Superb bit of kit.

http://123ignition.nl/downloads/fold...-Folder-LQ.pdf

They list one for the LandRover 2.6 6cylinder petrol engine...viz Rover 2.6


Here is a little video clip,the principle is the same on virtually every "old" car, very sorry if its "teaching to suck eggs!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpp67aqwM2Y

[Departed]

A few good points made. Wear in the dizzy will certainly cause problems. Pinking is a horrible rattling sound, usually on wide open throttle at lowe revs. It sounds much more metallic than a bottom end noise. If it stops as soon as you lift off, it's pinking. Try recording the sound on a moby and posting the sound clip. Many of us 'more mature persons ' (can't believe I'm saying that) will have heard it!

The fuel is very important. I used to service my dads cars, and after one service he told me I'd done the timing wrong as it was pinking badly. I reset the timing which was about right anyway, and he said it was no better. Anyway to keep the peace I retarded it a couple of degrees and he said it was better.

Some time later he drove my mums car and said it was the same, but I knew it was OK after the service. Anyway we took it out and sure enough it was now pinking. Retarded this a bit too.

Some weeks later, I was travelling with him to where he worked, and he pulled in for fuel at a Shell station. While sitting waiting I noticed the adverts for the 'spark aid' in it. I asked if he'd filled my mums car the day he started and he confirmed it. It was purely down to the new Shell fuel. Caused some serious problems for some cars!

Anyway to the point. Does the octane booster work in the same way as lead? Lead is a lubricant, but also prevents detonation which is what pinking is. So you might need to look at your fuel mix / additive. Also remember pinking was quite common until we got engine management with knock sensors. It was natures way of telling you to change down a gear.

It might be worth trying to find out what is worn in the dizzy. Often it's the driveshaft, which means the cam just floats about so your timing is hopeless. Also the baseplate is supposed to move. There are weights which spin out the faster they get, advancing the timing. There's also the vacuum advance which advances the engine at higher speeds but low throttle openings, but retards it again when you open the throtlle (to help avoid pinking!). I have seen one dizzy where the vacuum advance diaphram had a hole in it so just let air into the manifold! The hints of using a bulb to set timing are fine, but I prefer a multimeter (just my preference).

Finally, yes carbon / coke will cause pinking as it glows red hot and acts like a glow plug. You usually get a clue though, that you tend to get engine 'run on' for a brief time after you switch off ignition.

[Phil]

Hi, I've done the static timing, I think I've done it right. The handbook states for premium fuel, ignition timing should be set to 6 degrees before tdc.
An old technician I work with said that if the book says 6 degrees btdc for old fashioned fuel, then half it to 3 degrees btdc for unleaded.
I found the marks on the flywheel under a tin plate, there was tdc and one a few inches before that saying 6 degrees so I set the crankshaft between tdc and the 6 degrees mark. I then set the thumbwheel on the dizzy so the little line was one click away from advance and 4 clicks from retard. I made sure that the rotor arm was pointing at the number one contact on the distributor cap then I loosened the distributor and turned it so that the points were on the verge of opening and sparking, tightened everything up, then connected my test light up to the terminal on the coil that goes to the distributor then turned the engine over twice by hand, the test light lit up about when the 3 degrees mark came round on the crank. I started it up and it ran very well, it idled perfectly almost straight away with the choke pushed in from cold and you could snap the throttle without any hesitation with no choke from cold. It sounded really good apart from the rattling distributor. Unfortunately I couldn't take it out because its been raining all day.
The movement in the distributor,you can turn the rotor arm far enough to make the points spark as there is about 1/4 inch of movement in them, should it be like that?
Does that sound like I've done it right?

[BigRuss]

Sounds like you've got it just about right.

It's normal to be able to turn the rotor arm due to the advance mechanism.

A detailed strip down guide here with photo's that show how it all works not your exact model but may prove useful:

http://simonlacey.com/pages_new/cont...%20rebuild.htm


Russ

[Phil]

Originally Posted by BigRuss

Sounds like you've got it just about right.

It's normal to be able to turn the rotor arm due to the advance mechanism.

A detailed strip down guide here with photo's that show how it all works not your exact model but may prove useful:

http://simonlacey.com/pages_new/cont...%20rebuild.htm


Russ

Thanks Russ, would you agree/disagree with changing the timing from 6degrees btdc to 3 degrees btdc to take into account the new fuels?

[BigRuss]

Altering the timing could depend on which unleaded you use, normal unleaded is supposed to be 95 RON super unleaded supposed to be between 97 -98 RON.

4 star was always rated at 97 RON so it is possible if you check the ron rating first that you could use Super unleaded and not have to alter the timing.

Would consider a fuel additive for the upper cylinder lubrication though.

Russ

[2Diesels]

Sounds good to me Phil then if it's still a bit "pinky" you can knock it back on the thumbwheel but like I told you via PM P4s P5s & P6s were originally set up for 5 star but you could normally get away with 4 star & I ran my 2200TC on 4 star with no problems then they did away with it though it is still available from some Bayard Thrust petrol stations but I would think as Russ says if you use the Super Unleadeds with an additive then it should run much better & I'm speaking from experience my current P6 was terrible I couldn't set it up to run happy & I started using the better fuel & what a difference, better starting, smoother running, better response.

Regards Col

[Phil]

Originally Posted by 2Diesels

Sounds good to me Phil then if it's still a bit "pinky" you can knock it back on the thumbwheel but like I told you via PM P4s P5s & P6s were originally set up for 5 star but you could normally get away with 4 star & I ran my 2200TC on 4 star with no problems then they did away with it though it is still available from some Bayard Thrust petrol stations but I would think as Russ says if you use the Super Unleadeds with an additive then it should run much better & I'm speaking from experience my current P6 was terrible I couldn't set it up to run happy & I started using the better fuel & what a difference, better starting, smoother running, better response.

Regards Col

Thanks mate. super unleaded is next to try.

[pab]

octane boost..burns faster.
glad to hear your getting nearer