EU vote?

[stevenicks]

Originally Posted by wraymond

I would hope and expect any responsible government to hold a view of what they think is best for the country. They should also back that view with adequate data and tell the public what and why they think what they do.

Unfortunately the record is less than encouraging when all sources of information they use are in receipt of government funds or EU funds. That wouldn't be so bad if the level of trust was otherwise reasonable.

Critically, time and again the government has not only been hopelessly wrong with predicting economic performance but also downright untrustworthy in many other areas of commercial, legal and social affairs. The credibility gap, or rather chasm, is a result of downright lies and dumb deceit across their whole range of responsibility. It's not surprising there is conflict and mistrust, they lack what they have the nerve to call themselves - honourable.

Nothing honourable about any of them Ray. Just watching them on PMQ's most Wednesday's and the way they act makes my blood boil to think that they are actually running our country.

Originally Posted by HarryM1BYT

Mine arrived this morning too, and was back in the post within the hour with an X in the OUT box as well. I was in such a rush to get it back in the post, I initially missed putting the signed slip in the outer envelope, I just caught it in time with the seal still moist enough to re-open it.

Well done Harry

[steve-45]

Had some German colleagues visit the office last week and they are very worried about the UK leaving the EU.

Reason ... due to the large contribution that the UK pays into the EU they are worried that their taxes will increase to make up the UK shortfall should we leave.

[stevenicks]

Originally Posted by steve-45

Had some German colleagues visit the office last week and they are very worried about the UK leaving the EU.

Reason ... due to the large contribution that the UK pays into the EU they are worried that their taxes will increase to make up the UK shortfall should we leave.

Let's face it Steve, this country is looked upon as a soft touch. Which we are, of course

[topman]

Originally Posted by Polly

If you understand how the EU works, you must be the only one who does, maybe you can explain to me what our MEP actually do, (apart from apparently loose 80% of their votes) but what do the actually vote on? I do know that it has taken them 9 years to agree with our government that vehicle emission tests did not reflect real world conditions, and I believe similar time to agree trade deal with USA, neither of which have reached a conclusion yet.
What I do know, is that the elected members have no powers to make directives, which are the rules that must be obeyed, these come from the unelected commissioners, a bit like an upside down version of our system.
Early on in this debate, I was lead to believe that there was nothing to fear from the EU making decisions that might be detrimental to UK, because we could always use our veto, however I later discover, that if (I think nine) countries agree, our veto can be overruled.

No i don't think I'm the only one at all. the MEP vote on proposed laws much the same as ours do. Trade deals are something that would be outside their scope, again much the same as ours. For example the last uk - china trade deal it was the PM and the Chancellor that went and signed it off.

We do have a veto, but only in some areas.

HTH

[MSS]

Some interesting viewpoints.

But, I fear that the whole debate is being over-complicated. There is only possble outcome, that regardless of which way the vote goes, we will blame Europe for all our self-created problems and moan for ever.

If the vote is to stay in, then the EU and the rest of the world will have conspired gaint us and our interests.

If it is to leave, then the EU will have conspired against our interests so that they can keep control of our past contributions and punish us for our dissention by damaging our national interest and ruining the economy etc.

There you have it - only one possible outcome - we blame others and moan for ever. Interestingly, it will be the same people moaning one way or the other.

On the question of what has the EU done for us?

-clean beaches and rivers
-cleaner air
-lead free petrol
-restrictions on landfill dumping
-a recycling culture
-cheaper mobile charges
-cheaper air travel
-improved consumer protection
-better food labelling
-better product safety
-single market competition
-no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market
-freedom to travel
-labour protection and enhanced social welfare
-smoke-free workplaces
-equal pay legislation
-holiday entitlement
-the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime
-strongest wildlife protection in the world
-EU representation in international forums
-EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty
-European arrest warrant
-cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling
-co-operative counter terrorism intelligence
-laws to protect the rights of the ordinary citizen

What has the EU ever done for us?

[Gman2]

Originally Posted by steve-45

Had some German colleagues visit the office last week and they are very worried about the UK leaving the EU.

Reason ... due to the large contribution that the UK pays into the EU they are worried that their taxes will increase to make up the UK shortfall should we leave.

My brother in law is German and they have a phrase that amounts to "the brits always get the extra bit of sausage from the table" so it's quite interesting how we're viewed from mainland Europe.

I have no doubt that they are worried but when it comes to the plain economic facts we both need each other. If we vote to leave then where are we going to sell the bulk of our goods and services that until now go to the EU. If, upon exit, we want to continue with this relationship then we need to re-engage with Brussels in some form and I shudder to think how long that would take. If we don't want to send a further penny to Brussels (that appears to be the issue for many and yes I'd like to see the amount being less than it is) then where to next 'cos Europe would become a very difficult nut to crack to the detriment to UK business.

I don't think the Outers have even gone as far as drafting their economic plan on the back of a fag packet yet ...

Originally Posted by mss

Some interesting viewpoints.

But, I fear that the whole debate is being over-complicated. There is only possble outcome, that regardless of which way the vote goes, we will blame Europe for all our self-created problems and moan for ever.

If the vote is to stay in, then the EU and the rest of the world will have conspired gaint us and our interests.

If it is to leave, then the EU will have conspired against our interests so that they can keep control of our past contributions and punish us for our dissention by damaging our national interest and ruining the economy etc.

There you have it - only one possible outcome - we blame others and moan for ever. Interestingly, it will be the same people moaning one way or the other.

On the question of what has the EU done for us?

-clean beaches and rivers
-cleaner air
-lead free petrol
-restrictions on landfill dumping
-a recycling culture
-cheaper mobile charges
-cheaper air travel
-improved consumer protection
-better food labelling
-better product safety
-single market competition
-no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market
-freedom to travel
-labour protection and enhanced social welfare
-smoke-free workplaces
-equal pay legislation
-holiday entitlement
-the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime
-strongest wildlife protection in the world
-EU representation in international forums
-EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty
-European arrest warrant
-cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling
-co-operative counter terrorism intelligence
-laws to protect the rights of the ordinary citizen

What has the EU ever done for us?

Neatly summed up MSS and I can personally vouch for some on your list as contact with European partners forms part of my daily business. Although I suspect you'll be getting a counter-list shortly

[Mike Noc]

Originally Posted by mss

On the question of what has the EU done for us?

-clean beaches and rivers
-cleaner air
-lead free petrol
-restrictions on landfill dumping
-a recycling culture
-cheaper mobile charges
-cheaper air travel
-improved consumer protection
-better food labelling
-better product safety
-single market competition
-no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market
-freedom to travel
-labour protection and enhanced social welfare
-smoke-free workplaces
-equal pay legislation
-holiday entitlement
-the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime
-strongest wildlife protection in the world
-EU representation in international forums
-EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty
-European arrest warrant
-cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling
-co-operative counter terrorism intelligence
-laws to protect the rights of the ordinary citizen

What has the EU ever done for us?

Many of these things would still have happened had we never joined the EU though.

For instance would we still be running the majority of our cars on leaded petrol today if we were outside the EU? I think not.

[topman]

I think that list is a mixed bag, some of them they have done, some that they have done I'm not sure that they've achieved a great deal. And some we are quite capable of doing on our own, some not of course.

Originally Posted by Mike Noc

For instance would we still be running the majority of our cars on leaded petrol today if we were outside the EU? I think not.

No but that's a good example of laws affecting us even if we aren't in the eu.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

Originally Posted by mss

Some interesting viewpoints.

But, I fear that the whole debate is being over-complicated. There is only possble outcome, that regardless of which way the vote goes, we will blame Europe for all our self-created problems and moan for ever.

If the vote is to stay in, then the EU and the rest of the world will have conspired gaint us and our interests.

If it is to leave, then the EU will have conspired against our interests so that they can keep control of our past contributions and punish us for our dissention by damaging our national interest and ruining the economy etc.

There you have it - only one possible outcome - we blame others and moan for ever. Interestingly, it will be the same people moaning one way or the other.

On the question of what has the EU done for us?

-clean beaches and rivers
-cleaner air
-lead free petrol
-restrictions on landfill dumping
-a recycling culture
-cheaper mobile charges
-cheaper air travel
-improved consumer protection
-better food labelling
-better product safety
-single market competition
-no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market
-freedom to travel
-labour protection and enhanced social welfare
-smoke-free workplaces
-equal pay legislation
-holiday entitlement
-the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime
-strongest wildlife protection in the world
-EU representation in international forums
-EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty
-European arrest warrant
-cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling
-co-operative counter terrorism intelligence
-laws to protect the rights of the ordinary citizen

What has the EU ever done for us?

I'll repeat what I said a posts back; the company I work for "encourages" new employees to Oot out of the European Working Time Directive...

How many others do?

What's the point of it?

[topman]

Its sad that companies flout the law. You can opt out, but there's always people ready to think they don't have to follow the law.
The idea was to stop people working too many hours.